Deputy Corry gave notice that he would raise the subject matter of Question No. 53 on to-day's Order Paper.
Adjournment Debate. - Cork Compulsory Purchase Order.
I wonder could I claim the indulgence of the Chair and get a copy of the written reply given by the Minister?
Does the Deputy mean the supplementaries?
No, the ordinary reply.
I shall certainly oblige the Deputy.
The reply is surely available to the Deputy.
Unfortunately, I did not get it. The facts are that in September 1955 a housing inquiry was held by the Minister's Department in Cork. That was about 15 months ago. Among other things considered was a compulsory purchase order in reference to this site. Since then we have been looking for some reply from the Minister as to whether or not the inspector granted the application or what was the position.
This is the third occasion upon which I have raised this matter in this House. In neither of the previous replies did we get the suggestion made to-day by the Minister that we proposed to erect unserviced cottages on the site. The purpose of an inquiry is to find out the housing needs in an area, whether the particular site is suitable and what site would entail the least trouble and upset on the owners of the property. These are the three matters, I suggest, that the Minister had to decide and nothing else. If there were trouble, after the consideration of the particular type of houses to be built, that was a matter between the Department and the local authority. Once the question of the housing needs was proved, there should be no hold up of the site. In this case, the housing needs were proved. I suggest that this is part of a deliberate policy on the part of the Minister and his Department to hold up the building of much wanted houses in the South Cork area. We have not looked for any undue number of houses. In this area there are already two schemes of houses built. The difficulty we found ourselves in was that the type of people we wanted to provide houses for could not pay the rents. As a matter of fact, the late county manager increased the rents and found afterwards that he had to make another order reducing them again.
I am not concerned in this case with the type of house. That is a matter that could be very easily discussed between the Minister and the local authority. It has nothing whatever to do with this question.
I would point out to the Deputy that the half hour's Adjournment debate finishes at 20 minutes to six.
I do not wish to hold up the House. I only want to know definitely from the Minister why an inspector of his Department takes 15 months to make a decision. We are entitled to that information. If there is a definite policy in the Minister's Department, through lack of money or otherwise, to hold up housing, let the Minister come out and say so and not try to fool the local authority and the unfortunate people waiting for houses in Cork county.
First of all I should like to correct the reply I gave to Deputy Corry to-day when I said that sanitary services were available in the village of Ballinacurra. Only water is available. If I misled the Deputy in any way, I apologise, but I think he does know that only water—not sanitary services—is available in the village.
The position is that we are dealing with one site near the village of Ballinacurra, not three, as the Deputy stated in his question.
The actual position there is that we have three sites. We have to move tenants out of condemned dwellings into this site before we can build on the other two.
I think it is agreed that the C.P.O. only deals with one site?
Yes.
It is merely to clarify the position. The suggestion of the local authority is that they should build six unserviced cottages a distance of a quarter of a mile from the village of Ballinacurra. If we are to build these cottages, we cannot give them the amenity of water, if we build them this distance away from the village; but in the village there is a water supply and if the cottages are built in the village, they can be serviced by piped water. That is a very important amenity and adds very little, if anything, to the weekly rent.
I am not satisfied that it is good practice or good procedure to build unserviced cottages near a village when, if they were built in the village or in the immediate outskirts of it, they could be serviced. It is for that purpose I have delayed a decision in this matter. I have taken into account the fact that the prospective tenants of these cottages will have a weekly wage, as Deputy Corry pointed out, of from £4 to £4 10s. per week. I appreciate the hardship it is on tenants with such a small wage to pay a rent and it is for that reason I recently sanctioned the construction of a cheaper type of house by Cork County Council. It may be now that, in view of that sanction, Cork County Council will be able to erect this cheaper type of house in Ballinacurra village and have water laid on, and be able to give it to the tenants at the same rent as they will be able to give the unserviced cottages a quarter of a mile from the village. I think that is worth considering. Any person who has had experience of living in a house to which there is no water supply will appreciate the hardship, the slavery and drudgery of a woman carrying water from a well or a pump.
Did the Minister on any occasion during the past 15 months convey that information to the local authority?
The reason why I did not was that it is only quite recently that I sanctioned the erection of the cheaper type of house. It has been the practice of my predecessors down through the years to look for a very high standard of house. With increased costs, I think we can have— I will not say a sub-standard house— but a house a little less pretentious than we have been building in the past and in that way a little cheaper. I think we will be able eventually to give these tenants houses in the village of Ballinacurra with a water supply laid on at the same rent as the county council would now give them houses a quarter of a mile outside the village, without the amenity of a piped water supply.
They would have been built 12 months ago but for the Minister.
It is only 18 months since the inquiry was held.
The Minister never stated this.
I am telling the Deputy now and I am also telling him it will be necessary for me to annul the Order which was made to enable the local authority to procure an alternative site for these cottages in the village or within the immediate proximity of the village where they can lay on water. I know Deputy Corry very well and I know he has the interests of the farming community and the farm labourers at heart. I know he would be satisfied to wait six, eight or ten months, or even a year, to give the farm labourer this amenity of water into his little cottage.
I have waited 15 months for the Minister's money.
The Deputy waited 19 years when his Party was in office——
Oh, no.
——and he never displayed any great anxiety about these unfortunate farm labourers.
I would like to point out to the Minister that during our 19 years we built two schemes in that village.
You did great work. I give you great credit for building two small schemes in 19 years. It was terrific work.
The Minister should not talk like that. They were built in every village all over the country. That will get you nowhere.
How is it that Deputy Ó Briain insists on interrupting like that? Is he afraid to hear the truth?
It is not the truth.
Order! The Minister is entitled to an opportunity of saying what he has to say.
A quarter of a million houses were built in the past 19 years.
How many were built since 1948?
I cannot say.
Of course, Deputy Ó Briain cannot say. Deputy Corry understands the advantages of these amenities. If these unfortunates have waited down through the years, I would ask them to have patience while Cork County Council is procuring an alternative site for the six cottages on which a cheaper type of cottage may be built with a water supply laid on.
I am telling the truth— that the Minister has no money.
If that is the way the Deputy wants it, he was not listening to the debate this evening.
Deputy Corry had his say and he should allow the Minister to speak.
I am sorry.
I am telling Deputy Corry, if he allows me, to suggest to Cork County Council what I think they should do when they get a public sanitary service in the village of Ballinacurra, and I hope that they will get it. Whenever they do get it, they will be able to connect up these six houses to that public sanitary service and the tenants of these labourers' cottages will then have water and severage services laid on, something they can never hope to receive if the cottages are built a quarter of a mile out of the village at the site now suggested by the Deputy.
The Dáil adjourned at 5.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 12th December, 1956.