On the 13th of last month I asked the Minister for Local Government to give the reasons why he refused to see a deputation from the Kildare County Council, accompanied by the three Deputies from the constituency, in relation to the road grants affecting County Kildare and the position which had arisen, as a result of which no fewer than 50 men were being disemployed forthwith. From the replies which the Minister gave at the time it is quite clear, beyond all doubt, that the Minister did not understand and did not appreciate the points it was intended to put to him on the part of the Kildare County Council. It is quite clear, as I shall show now, that the Minister did not realise the nature of the request that was to be made to him and, when he refused to see the deputation, he was in fact refusing to see a responsible body of opinion from County Kildare.
May I make it quite clear that the request that was made to the Minister was a request made, not by a majority vote of the Kildare County Council but by all the members of the county council, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and Labour. Subsequent to the Minister's refusal to see the members of the Kildare County Council, the Minister was approached by a Fianna Fáil Deputy for the constituency asking whether he would be prepared to see the three Deputies for that constituency—Deputy Norton, Deputy Dooley and myself. Again the Minister refused. I am not aware of any case in which a Minister has ever refused to see all the Deputies from any constituency Neither am I, in fact, aware of any case in which any Minister ever refused to see a deputation from a responsible authority like the Kildare County Council when the request was made unanimously. It seems to me that the refusal of the Minister in both these instances can only be described as discourteous—not to us because that does not matter in the least; from the present occupant of the Ministry of Local Government we expect that —to the people that we represent, and not only discourteous but churlish also in relation to the people that we and the members of the Kildare County Council have the honour to represent.
Now, what is involved in the proposal that was put forward and that the members of the Kildare County Council desired to put in person to the Minister? Some years ago, when it was considered desirable that there should be re-planning of certain main arterial roads, discussions took place between the officials of the Department of Local Government and the officials of the Kildare County Council, together with, I am sure, other county council officials and, by virtue of these discussions, an endeavour was made to make a plan by virtue of which such work could be carried out efficiently and with proper and reasonable continuity. This is not the occasion to discuss whether it is wise to have by-pass roads, whether the method of planning such roads is or is not the correct one but, irrespective of whether it is correct or wise, in any event everyone will agree that when it is intended to undertake work of that nature it should be undertaken in the most efficient possible way. The efficiency of that work can be ensured only if, as we have so often heard in relation to forestry for example, there is a sufficiency of land available ahead to ensure that the work can be done and can be properly planned.
The Kildare County Council in pursuance of that instruction from the Department of Local Government set out to acquire the land that would be necessary so that they could make a proper plan for their roads and so that, when they started on the work, they could carry it though with proper continuity and with reasonable efficiency. In the discussions the question of the payment of compensation arose naturally enough. Compensation in relation to arterial roads, such as we are discussing to-night, is payable out of the Road Fund. It was represented at that time, and correctly represented, that if it were necessary, as it was, to purchase land in advance before the roadworks had actually reached the land, one could easily have a situation in which all, or a substantial part of the grant money, would be paid in any one year with a consequent diminution in employment.
The Kildare County Council suggested, and it was accepted by the Department of Local Government, that the proper way in which to pay for land which had to be acquired was to meet the compensation year by year out of the grant for the particular year in which the work was done on the land acquired. That was the accepted practice. It was the effective practice for years past, not merely when the inter-Party Government was in office but also during the period of office of the Fianna Fáil Government from 1951 to 1954. It was a practice adopted because in that way, and only in that way, could there be reasonable and proper continuity in relation to the planning of roadworks. The land could be paid for in any one year without taking for land purchase more than its proper proportion of the road grant leaving moneys otherwise available for employment. That is what happened in the current financial year.
A sum of £12,000 was paid by the Kildare County Council in pursuance of the arrangement made for efficient planning in the acquisition of lands, to be used not this year but next year and the ensuing two years. It was because the Kildare County Council were forced by the arrangements made with the Department to purchase that land and to pay for it this year utilising those moneys which would, under the arrangements made previously, otherwise be available for the employment of the men concerned, that the Kildare County Council wished to make this arrangement. It is not a new arrangement. It is an arrangement by virtue of which the procedure which had been in operation previously would be carried into effect and the county council were, in fact, giving their quota to ensure that the livelihood of the men involved would not be affected by the county council agreeing that they, for their part, would pay the interest involved in putting up the purchase money for these lands acquired in a different way and meet the interest charge on that purchase money.
That case could easily have been put to the Minister if he had seen the deputation. It is perfectly clear from his replies that he did not understand that that was the point at issue. It is perfectly clear from his replies that he thought that what the Kildare County Council were trying to do was to anticipate employment grants for subsequent years. That is exactly what the Kildare County Council were not doing. They were merely anxious to provide a way by virtue of which the moneys that they had paid for the acquisition of land this year would not cause a diminution in employment this year.
The Minister refused to see that deputation. Then, when the matter was raised by me in the House, he had no defence to offer except to show that he did not understand the approach being made to him and to make a crack at me about the transfer of £500,000 from the Road Fund to the Exchequer. Let me make quite clear why that transfer was made. Let me make quite clear that I have no apology whatsoever to offer for it. In certain circumstances it is highly desirable that drainage work should be done instead of road work. Both give approximately the equivalent employment content, but drainage work assists production far more than road work in certain circumstances. I was faced with the alternatives of choosing between drainage work and road work I chose to keep the drainage work and the Minister this year has chosen to eliminate the drainage work. I am quite happy to be judged throughout the country by that choice. Everyone throughout the country will agree I think, that if the choice was there, it was far better to consider something that would give an aid to production and by so doing to ensure we would be able to increase our national productivity and particularly the productivity of our major industry, agriculture.
For whatever reason the Minister had in his own mind, he would not see the deputation. Perhaps he was afraid to face them. Be that as it may, when it was clear from the discussion in the House that the Minister did not understand the point of view and when it was clear that there was no other way in which the matter could be dealt with, after discussion with the local people concerned a representative meeting was called in my own parish. It was attended by Deputy Dooley, on behalf of Fianna Fáil and his Fianna Fáil supporters in the parish of Kill, where most of this unemployment has arisen. The meeting was also attended by Deputy Norton and his Labour supporters in that area as well as by my own supporters.
This representative meeting requested that the three Deputies concerned would approach the Minister for Local Government and would explain their point of view to him and the position as they saw it. Again the Minister refused. I do not know of any occasion ever before in the history of this House on which a Minister refused to see all the Deputies from any constituency, representing the electorate of that constituency. I can only interpret such a refusal as being a deliberate insult to the people of County Kildare. I do not mind the fact that the Minister refused to see an ex-Tánaiste and an ex-Minister. That is entirely by the way, but it is in strong contrast with the courtesy and civility with which, I am glad to say, all the Ministers of the last Government received ex-Ministers of the previous Fianna Fáil Government and Fianna Fáil Deputies. It will be in strong contrast with the civility that the Deputies and ex-Ministers of the Fianna Fáil Party will receive them when they go out of office, as surely they will, judging by their unpopularity in the country at present.
Be that as it may, it is not that question of churlishness, insolence or petty dictatorship that matters; it is the question of the livelihood of the men involved in which we are interested in Kildare and also, let me add, the insult given to the people by a responsible Minister of the Government, or by a Minister who should be responsible, in refusing to see the elected Deputies of all Parties. It is as near an attempt at tyranny as one could bet.
