Could the Minister tell us the geographical places in which the various articles enumerated here are now manufactured within the State?
Imposition of Duties (Confirmation of Orders) Bill, 1958—Committee Stage.
Sections 1 and 2 agreed to.
SCHEDULE.
Question proposed: "That the Schedule be the Schedule to the Bill."
The whole lot of them?
Yes. I want to see what policy of decentralisation is operating here.
Prepared wheaten breakfast foods—the principal place is Dublin. The next is malt extract— Mountmellick. Iron and steel bars— that is only an exclusion. The next is shirts—all over the place. The next is drags and forks—Cork, Navan and Galway. Agricultural machinery is next—that is mainly Wexford. Glazed fireclay pipes and connections—Athy.
But in the Laois part of Athy.
Iron and steel sheets —Haulbowline; yarn of man-made fibres—that is a new industry in Sligo; cement articles—County Dublin; flower pots—Wexford; iron ropes— Wicklow; coil springs—Wexford; gummed paper—Dublin.
It could almost be called the Dublin and Wexford Bill, as far as I can gather.
The Minister for Agriculture might have saved the Minister for Industry and Commerce some trouble if he told us what he was going to do about the maintenance of subsidies on agricultural exports. I want to direct the attention of the House to this Schedule of 15 duties which we are imposing to-day, including a duty on agricultural drags and forks, a duty on agricultural machinery and a duty on iron and steel sheets used in farm buildings, as well as duties on a variety of other things which the agricultural community, as well as the rest of the community, habitually use. As a result, the producers of these industrial products can charge consumers in this country some margin, great or small, over and above the world price ruling for these commodities——
Not necessarily. I do not know what the Deputy means by "world price".
The price at which he would have to compete, if competition were available.
Over and above the lowest possible price.
Yes. Accordingly, we hand them out in 15 sub-heads to add to the vast catalogue that at present exists. I would ask the House to bear in mind that we do so almost without comment. It seems to be self-evident that that must be done. The argument made by the Minister is: "Do you want them to compete with these commodities drawn from the cheapest source in the world, because, if you do, then you will deny these tariffs, and if you are prepared to concede that industrial producers are entitled to some protection from that kind of competition, you must give them this protection."
I want to direct the attention of the House to the fact that whatever the sum of the charges that come in course of payment by the consumer in the country as a result of our decision in regard to this schedule of tariffs may be, it is that sum that is to be compared with the figure which appears in the Supplementary Estimate this morning as the subsidy requisite to equip the farmer to meet competition from the cheapest sources in the world in the export market where he sells bacon and butter. We are giving him in that subsidy nothing more, and I doubt if we are giving him as much as we are giving to these manufacturers here.
Bear this in mind. The farmer who seeks a subsidy which, in my opinion, is a lesser charge on the community than these tariffs, is competing in foreign markets with his produce. None of these producers for whose benefit we are enacting these tariffs, even aspires to look for foreign markets.
When were they put on?
I could not tell you. I do not know.
I will tell you before I leave.
Order!
We are now confronted with these tariffs, some of which on the merits we might not approve, notably the one on agricultural forks and agricultural machines; but I do not propose at this stage to go into that. The point I want to make is that this protection of the domestic market for these producers is just as material a burden on the taxpayer and consumer in this country as the subsidies which we voted this morning for the agricultural exporter. The House should bear that constantly in mind, with the additional factor that the agricultural exporter is a competitor in foreign markets and is earning foreign currency for us, without which the raw materials of none of these industries could be imported.
These industries simply cater for the domestic market and get their profits and trade union rates of wages out of the prices they are enabled to charge as a result of the tariff protection which we provide for them, which in some cases is 75 per cent. ad valorem. They earn nothing by way of foreign exchange. The raw materials, on which they operate and without which they could not operate for an hour, are paid for by the butter and bacon exports of the Irish farmer. Unless we continue to ensure that those who produce these things continue to get a price for them which will make it possible for them to earn a modest livelihood—far lower in standard in many cases than is enjoyed by the humblest workman employed in these industrial activities—unless we continue to ensure that the exporter of agricultural produce gets a price which enables him to live and have a modest standard of comfort, not only will he be unable to produce, but all these industrialists and their employees will fall by the wayside, for it is the exports of the agricultural community that make it possible for these industries to survive.
Would the Deputy agree that the manufacture of these commodities here does save imports?
No. I do not believe the manufacture of forks saves imports here. All the raw materials have to be brought in.
In this case, they are German forks, not British forks.
I would like to point out that those tariffs were imposed——
You are depriving the Minister of the Bill.
You took up two-and-a-half hours here to-day.
All the tariffs in this Bill were imposed by me.
Except the first.
I am only starting on this business now. I am in possession, and I move to report progress.
Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday 12th March, 1958.