Last week a question was put down in the Dáil by Deputy Burke in connection with the sales of Irish whiskey to America. To my amazement I read in the Irish Press the following day that the consumption of Irish whiskey in America had gone up and that a great future lay ahead of Irish distillers there. I felt there was something rather peculiar about the reply given in the House on that occasion, so I drafted a question, which was answered to-day, in connection with this very important commodity and its sale in America. The Minister has sought to suggest through so-called agents in America that the consumption of Irish whiskey there is on the increase, while the figures for the actual exports of Irish whiskey show a reduction. The attempt is made to suggest that, even though our exports may go down in one year, as they are going down at the moment, that in itself is no harm, that it is quite possible that there are large stocks of our whiskey on hand in America and that it is out of those stocks that the alleged increased consumption is taking place.
If that is the case, let us look at the position of whiskey. For the first nine months of this year the Scottish distillers had an all-time record of exports to America, while the value of Irish whiskey exported dropped from £268,933 in the first nine months of last year to £257,319 for the first nine months of the current year. It is on those facts we must go and not on the wishful thinking of agents in America.
This whole question was discussed in the House on a number of occasions. The present Tánaiste was in opposition when a motion in connection with the distillery industry received thorough consideration in the House. At that time the then Tánaiste, Deputy Norton, specifically guaranteed that if the distillers did not wake up and do their duty in regard to the expansion of the whiskey industry he would take the steps I recommended in this House namely, nationalise.
Since 1954 to the present time the actual increase in the export of Irish whiskey has been negligible. We were told that an immense drive was under way to popularise a number of blended whiskeys — new products — in the American market. I tried in this House by way of Parliamentary Questions to extract from the Minister what were the exact sales of blended whiskey in America and a reply would not be given. Is there any reason why the House and the country cannot be told what the actual export value of the blended whiskey is each year, having regard to the fact that the country, the public and the taxpayers are now going to subsidise the Irish distillers?
When the blended whiskeys went on the American market, it was conveyed to me by the representatives of the particular company that these blended whiskeys would not for at least ten to 15 years, if ever, be made available on the home market; that their entire supplies would be utilised for and would be necessary to supply the demand in America. What is the position? You can visit any country "pub" and you will find the shelves lined with whiskeys alleged to suit the American market. We must face the facts. How is it that this blended whiskey is available all over the country when we were assured that it was for the export market?
Some Deputies suggested that during the war years the wrong policy was pursued by the Government. I am not trying to blame any particular Government for this at the moment. I blame the distilling industry and I challenge contradiction when I say that the year prohibition was repealed in America the Irish distillers were requested to come into the American market. They got first preference in the American market for the sale of Irish whiskey.
The answer of the two major distilleries at the time was that they were not interested in the American market. They were not interested in the export trade. They were only interested in the home market. The result was that the Scots went into the American market. Since 1932 they have gradually built up their sales to the tune of £45,000,000 worth of whiskey. When we find that the over-all consumption of spirits in America is over £600,000,000 we can see the opening that is there or should be there for the sale of Irish whiskey. When we see that Scotch whiskey represents a little over 5 per cent. of the total consumption in America, surely there is room, if our distillers are doing their duty, to move in and get another 5 per cent.?
Deputy Norton pointed out how important this industry can be. I have said a thousand times already that it could be of far greater importance than the cattle trade if it were properly developed. What have we done? We have left the distilling industry in the hands of the most conservative people who, over the years, for the past 80 years, when they got an opportunity, utilised for the whiskey itself raw materials from other countries if they could get them cheaper than those produced in Ireland. They are on record for that. They maintained on many occasions that the raw materials, rye, oats, and barley, came from Scotland and elsewhere rather than from crops grown in Ireland.
There can be no denying the fact that these people have failed over the years to expand this important industry. What are we doing now? We come into this House and we are going to give £25,000 to Córas Tráchtála to help the distillers sell their individual blends in America. Deputy Norton and other Deputies will recollect that American experts gave it as their opinion that if Irish whiskey, either of the blended type or the old pot-still type, were to be a success in America it would be necessary for the distillers to organise and pool their resources; that instead of each of them working in haphazard fashion on the various parts of the American coast they should combine to produce a standard whiskey for that market and utilise the American distributive trade. No effort has been made to do that.
The only way we are giving publicity at the moment to the limited sales of Irish whiskey in America is to hold dinner parties, cocktail parties and to invite people from this country to meet Pressmen in New York, Boston and San Francisco, drink a few bottles and have sore heads and that is the end of it. There was no attempt made by our distillers to move in and offer the whiskey to any particular distributor there many of whom had to sell £50,000,000 to £150,000,000 worth of liquor throughout the States. No effort was ever made to deal with those people.
Instead of that we waste money every few months on publicity stunts. There is no long-term plan proposed that will hold what we have in the American market and build therefrom. The £25,000 or £50,000 spent on whiskey in America is not even the proverbial drop in the ocean as far as a publicity campaign is concerned. The Scotch distillers spend more money on publicity than we would get for the entire sales of our whiskey to America.
I am in an awkward position in this matter because I want to see this trade develop but I am convinced we are going the wrong way about it. Every time this House gives a little help to the distillers we are allowing them to hang on to the old ways. They will make no real effort to do their duty and create any real expansion in this industry. The Minister should send for the distillers and tell them to pool their whiskey resources, and get over here from America, if necessary, some chemical experts who will in conjunction with scientists and chemists in the distilleries here produce a type of whiskey that will suit the American palate. In addition, I think whiskey for export should have the approval of a bureau of standards and be sold in conjunction with some of the large distributing interests in America on a profit basis to the particular distributing firms. We should hand over the sales to one of these large companies in operation in America. That can be done. The offer was made to Government Departments here and of course it was turned down because the distillers refused to sink their individual interests. They want to stay in their own old groove and they refuse to co-operate. When they refuse to co-operate in a major issue like this, is it right for us to ask the general public to subsidise these distillers who will not do their duty?
The question of protecting even the type of whiskey that is going out is neglected. There is no means of prosecuting publicans in the United States if they sell a whiskey described as Irish whiskey but which is made, possibly in a back room, in America, whereas the Scots can deal quickly and efficiently with those people if an attempt is made to misuse the word "Scotch" on the bottle.
I do not know whether under this measure any help is to be given with regard to the sales of whiskey in Britain. It may be that that position will be kept dark. Do we intend to make any provision at this stage to ensure that no whiskey will be allowed out except in bottles, and to prevent this bulk export of whiskey which is now taking place at a very young age? It is desirable to ensure that Irish whiskey leaving here in bulk for Britain does not become portion of the ingredients for Scotch whisky.
It is a fact that Irish whiskey which leaves here for Britain finds its way to America as Scotch whisky. The portion that is used is possibly small but nevertheless Irish whiskey is a raw material for the Scotch whisky going to America. That is a matter that should be examined. There is no real effort made to complete in Britain and have Irish whiskey sold on its merits there. I have not got the figures with me and I may be incorrect but my recollection is that the value of Scotch whisky sold in Ireland last year was greater than the value of the Irish whiskey we exported. At any rate, there is very little difference between the two sets of figures and, as far as the balance of payments is concerned, the sales of whiskey are not even doing a good day's work.
If the distillers want to stick to the present arrangement why not make the Scotch whisky drinkers here pay for the export publicity campaign for the export of whiskey? Is there anything wrong with putting another 6d. on the glass of Scotch and utilising that money for the purpose of selling Irish whiskey in America? If anybody here feels like drinking Scotch whisky they should be charged more than they would be charged for Irish whiskey. That would be better than putting a burden on the ordinary individual in the State to subsidise the distillers.
I should like the Minister to let us know when he is replying what is the position at the moment with regard to the effort to sell these types of blended whiskey in America. Will he also let us know the reason why in reply to Dáil questions the Central Statistics Office cannot separate the figures and give us the figures for the sale of pot-still as distinct from those for the sale of blended whiskey. It is not an unfair request and I think the Minister is in a position to make that information available. In view of the fact that this House is to vote a sum of money to enable the distillers to sell this product abroad, surely the public are entitled to know what is the export value of the particular types of whiskey. I ask him to give us that information in his reply.