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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 26 Oct 1960

Vol. 184 No. 1

Private Members' Business. - Relief of Unemployment—Motion.

I move:

"That in view of the present serious unemployment position and the certainty that unemployment will increase still further during the winter months, Dáil Éireann is of opinion that the Government should make money immediately available to local authorities for the relief of unemployment."

According to the figures supplies to us by the Government there are at present 40,018 persons registered as unemployed. At the beginning, I should say that this represents a reduction in the registered unemployed compared with a similar period last year or the year before that. However, I do not think that because there has been a slight reduction compared with those two years, the Government should be complacent about the question of unemployment. As a matter of fact, I think they should be concerned about the increase that is even now taking place from week to week. This increase is demonstrated by the fact that in two short weeks there has been a rise in the number of unemployed to the extent of 1,000 persons and, if the figures are to follow the usual trend, this increase of 1,000 per week will continue until some time in the Spring.

The seriousness of the position as far as unemployment is concerned is further demonstrated by the fact that the number of registered unemployed represents six per cent. of the insured persons in the country. Six per cent. is a pretty high percentage and represents four or five times the number of persons who are unemployed in Great Britain. I should say that I do not intend to refer at any length— maybe not at all—to the position in, Great Britain vis-á-vis Ireland, as far as unemployment and employment is concerned, but I do want to impress upon the Parliamentary Secretary that, while we have 40,000 odd unemployed at present, the position will become worse and worse as we go on into winter until, as I said before, we come to the early spring.

Of course, we shall be told this is a seasonal increase, and this has come to be accepted by members of the House as a normal thing. The plain fact remains, however, that there will be an increase in the number of people who cannot find employment, and I should like to demonstrate what this seasonal increase means. I want to refer to the figures for unemployment in August, 1959, and in January, 1960. In August, 1959, there were 45,300 persons registered as unemployed, who were fit for work, who were willing to work, who were available for work and who could not get employment. In January, 1960, that figure had risen to 74,300 persons, representing an increase of 29,000 people. Now, I appreciate that there is a seasonal change in the unemployment figures, but I do not see why we should accept it as being the normal thing, that we should have so many people unemployed, a relatively small number in a particular month of the year and an increase in that number of 20,000, 25,000 or 30,000 five or six months later.

Employment, as all of us would want it to be, is employment for 12 months of the year, and I believe we have far too much of what is described as seasonal employment. Some people are satisfied when they know that a certain number of workers have obtained six, nine or ten months' employment during the year, but the people who find themselves unemployed for one, two, and in some cases six months of the year, must find it pretty hard to live, and I do not think we should be satisfied with the explanation, or retort, that this is seasonal, that we must accept it because it has been accepted down through the years as being seasonal, and that there is nothing abnormal about it.

There has been a note of complacency in the speeches of the Taoiseach during the last few years in regard to the question of employment, and I know that the Parliamentary Secretary, when he speaks in this debate, will tell me there were so many unemployed in 1957, 1956, 1955 and 1954. That may be all right to secure a political point but I am concerned with what the Government are willing to do and can do in order to alleviate the position of tens of thousands of people who will find themselves unemployed in the coming winter months. Certainly I, for one, cannot understand a recent statement of the Taoiseach who said that we now only need 50,000 new jobs. Before he was elected a member of this Government he said that 100,000 jobs were needed, but two or three years afterwards that figure has been cut to 50,000, and where 50,000 people got employment in this country in the meantime I fail to see. From the figures published by the Government themselves, and from my own experience of the country in general, it does not seem to be the case that 50,000 new jobs have been provided.

Again, let me say that while there has been some improvement in the employment position as indicated by the figures, at the same time it seems to me that the number of registered unemployed has been cut by certain devices deliberately employed by the Government and, in that reduction, the Minister for Social Welfare has played a very prominent part. Deputies must admit that in their own constituencies and localities they know well there is a stringent and sometimes unfair application of the regulations by the Minister for Social Welfare to those persons who, in normal circumstances, would qualify for unemployment benefit and unemployment assistance.

The reply from the Minister for Social Welfare or the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance is: "That is all right. Even though they are not eligible to receive unemployment benefit or unemployment assistance, they may register as being unemployed." But he knows, as I and every Deputy know, that the majority of those who do not receive unemployment benefit or assistance do not register as being unemployed and hope to find employment through the employment exchanges. The plain fact is that, apart from relief workers, there are very few who get employment through the labour exchanges.

The unemployment figures were again cut down by the action of the Minister for Social Welfare in extending the Employment Period Order, thereby depriving many men, particularly those in rural areas, of being eligible for unemployment benefit or assistance during particular months of the year. Again, the majority of those did not bother to register as being unemployed.

The third and most important cause for what seems to be a reduction in the number of registered unemployed is emigration. I see from to-day's Cork Examiner that the Taoiseach, speaking at the Dublin Chamber of Commerce last night, referred at length to the problem of emigration. I shall not say it is the first time he expressed concern about it because that would be an injustice. I notice that in part of his speech he said:

Our concern ought express itself in a more effective way than a futile deploring of the situation and in resolutions calling for somebody else to do something about it, which seems to be the most usual kind of public reference to it.

In other portions of his speech he admits, contrary to what is said by other spokesmen of the Fianna Fáil Party, that emigration is still going on at the same pace as it has been for the past five, ten or fifteen years. The figures published by the Taoiseach's Department indicate that such is the case.

The passenger movement figures, in regard to sea transport only, indicate that net emigration for the year ended June, 1960, was over 40,000. The Taoiseach says that figures are not accurate and that we can only judge the extent of emigration when we have the final figures of the Census of Population which is to be taken some time next year. However, on very many occasions he has quoted figures for emigration on the basis of passenger movement between this country and Great Britain and other countries. The fact is that 40,000 people emigrated in the twelve months ended June, 1960. I do not say all these people were adults or were people who wanted employment, but I do say that the vast majority of them were people who for various reasons, mainly economic, had to leave this country to seek a better living abroad.

The natural increase in the population here is usually reckoned at about 25,000 persons per annum. I do not know whether that has declined or not. However, when one has regard to these two figures, they indicate that the population is declining and declining rapidly. That figure of 40,000 emigrants during the twelve months ended June, 1960, indicates that the number of registered unemployed has been decreased, not by the provision of more jobs by the Government but by the fact that 40,000 of our people had to emigrate to Great Britain or elsewhere. It is admitted that population is the touch-stone of success for any economic policy pursued by this or any other Government. Many reasons are given as to why people emigrate— economic reasons, lack of employment, insecurity. Many people will tell you that the vast majority of those who emigrate need not do so at all. I do not believe that.

There are no statistics to show why people leave this country but we all know from our own experience as public representatives why people leave Donegal, Wexford, Cork, Dublin and, in particular, the western counties. We hear stories about so-and so who left a good job. I know one man who emigrated to Great Britain about two months ago. He had a reasonably good job—he was a vanman—but you could not say he took home a big wage packet every week. His problem was this. He was a man of about 45 years of age. He had six children who were coming to the stage where they had to obtain employment in order that the family might have a decent standard of living. He was required to emigrate because he could not start his children in their first jobs and he had to seek refuge in England to find for his children the opportunities he could not find in Ireland.

Another reason people emigrate is because of the insecurity of many jobs here. The road worker who obtains nine months' employment during the year cannot be said to have a permanent job. He may be able to provide for himself and his family for nine months of the year but it is no consolation for him to be told that for the other three months he can draw unemployment benefit. The rate of unemployment benefit he would obtain, no matter how large a family he had, would not be sufficient to allow him enjoy the standard of living he would have if he had a job for twelve months. In this country we are too prone to think that men should be satisfied when they get some employment during the year. There is a lack of employment for many of those who have been forced to emigrate and who, in turn, have cut down the number of registered unemployed.

I heard the Taoiseach, in speeches before the adjournment of the Dáil for the Summer recess, try to prove that there are more people in employment at the present time than there were a year or two or three or four years ago. As far as we can judge, again from statistics produced by the Taoiseach's Department, there are approximately 50,000 fewer people employed in this country than there were four years ago. It is true that the number employed in transportable goods industries in June last was 3,000 higher than the number so employed in June, 1959. In June, 1959, the number was 155,774; in June, 1960, it was 158,926. There was an improvement of 3,000. The Taoiseach and the Government can take their due meed of credit for that improvement in that sector.

One might say—although not from any statistics recently published— that there has been an increase in the number of building workers compared with last year. I do not think that there has been an increase as compared with four, five or six years ago, but compared with last year, I suppose there has been an increase although I have no figures to substantiate that statement. I think there has been an increase in the number of building workers due to the fact that reasonably generous grants have been given and people have been facilitated, especially in the reconstruction of houses and various improvements to hotels and other buildings.

But if we give credit to the Government for the provision of 3,000 extra jobs in that sector we must refer to the grave decline in employment in other sectors, especially agriculture. Again there is no point in saying that this is a transitional stage, that people all over Europe and the world are leaving the land, that according as machinery is introduced there is less work for men. That is not a solution to the problem.

But it is a fact.

It is a fact. If I become bald, it is a tragedy while it may be a fact. It is no solution to say to people who are leaving Dún Laoghaire or Rosslare en route to Birmingham, London or Fishguard that it is a fact that fewer people are needed on the land. They are Irishmen and it is the Government's duty to provide opportunities for employment, to create conditions for employment for them. We cannot afford to lose many more of them.

There has been a grave decline in the number employed in the agricultural industry, not this year or last year, but continued over the last six decades. The Government must have regard to the fact that men have become disemployed even though in the transportable goods sector there has been an increase of 3,000 jobs.

The Government pledged themselves to provide employment. When they announced that they would get husbands back to work they did not say, "We do not mean agricultural workers." Their slogans which were plastered on walls throughout the country did not imply that. They meant everybody.

We must not disregard the fact that in Coras Iompair Éireann at the present time there are 1,000 fewer employees than there were this time last year. Those who were disemployed got compensation. Some people said that it was generous compensation in respect of some of them. It was not the compensation that fulfilled their need, especially in the case of family men. The compensation these men needed was employment at a similar rate of pay to that which they had been receiving in Coras Iompair Éireann. The increase of 3,000 jobs in the transportable goods sector is immediately reduced by the 1,000 disemployed in C.I.E.

In the Electricity Supply Board's rural electrification scheme there has been a decline in employment. I do not blame the Government for that. The programme is coming to an end and we cannot increase the lighting of the country ad infinitum. However, if the Parliamentary Secretary wants facts, the fact is that there has been a grave decline in employment in Córas Iompair Éireann and the E.S.B.

There is another matter. I do not know whether the Taoiseach was well intentioned or not or whether he was trying to pull a trick or not. There were references to it to-day at Question time. There was a graver situation, let me admit, in the matter of unemployment about 18 months or two years ago and the Taoiseach was concerned about it—at least he said he was and proposed to do something about it. In an effort to reduce the number of registered unemployed he thought he would enlist the aid of the local authorities. He sent a circular to each local authority. The circular was sent to borough corporations, corporations, county councils, urban councils and town commissioners, asking them to submit schemes which they believed to be worthwhile and for the public good, stating that the Government would consider those schemes and that any that they regarded as worthwhile they would finance in an effort to provide employment. What happened? Does the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance know of any one that was sanctioned?

Many of them related to Schemes that had already been undertaken and for which very generous grants were available.

Fán nóimeat. The county councils went to some expense. They held special meetings to consider what might be done in response to the Taoiseach's circular. They had to consider proposals received from their officials. Their engineers were sent around the functional area of the local authority. County councillors were asked to suggest schemes. Schemes were submitted in dozens from each county and they have been there for the last 18 months. I am referring to new schemes for which the Taoiseach asked. I do not know in what Department they are lying—the Taoiseach's Department, the Department of Finance or the Department of Local Government.

Again, it was only a trick, so much whitewash. It was an effort by the Taoiseach to convince people that something would be done but nothing was done. I heard the Minister for Finance saying that the schemes were not of an economic nature. Does anybody know of many schemes that could be submitted by a local authority that would be of an economic nature—amenity schemes such as the building of houses, roads and all that sort of thing?

Swimming pools.

There was not one sanctioned that would have given employment.

Plenty of money is being spent on such schemes.

Were there any swimming pools schemes sent up by the local authorities in response to the Taoiseach's circular?

They were exactly what the Minister said to-day, schemes that were already in hand. There was nothing new.

In any case the Taoiseach has attempted to pass the buck to the Minister for Finance to-day. He got all the blame.

There were some good schemes amongst them.

I know but they were not sanctioned.

The Deputy would be terribly disappointed if they were.

Why did you not tell us about them long ago?

The Deputy would be terribly disappointed if they were sanctioned.

Why has the Parliamentary Secretary been so reluctant to tell us what schemes have been sanctioned?

The people who have gone away would like to know.

It is difficult to understand why the Government cannot honour the promise that was implied in that circular sent out by the Taoiseach to the various local authorities. They cannot say they have grave financial problems. There is no balance of payments problem.

No, that day is gone.

The economy is alive and buoyant.

Therefore can more money not be made available to provide employment for the people who are now registered as unemployed and to cope with the increase that will undoubtedly take place in the next five or six months? I would urge upon the Parliamentary Secretary in turn to urge his colleagues in the other Departments to speed up the Departmental machinery and the procedure for the approval of many of the schemes sent up in response to the Taoiseach's circular but which have been lying in the Department for years and years. I may be too late in this as far as the Minister for Local Government is concerned. I did not see the actual circular, but the Minister for Local Government referred today to the one he sent to the local authorities and which in effect gives them permission to go ahead with the building of houses without the same sort of strict approval and searching inquiry on which he insisted up to about a month ago. In holding up a circular like that the Minister for Local Government has been responsible for some emigration.

I do not want to be too local on this motion, but the Parliamentary Secretary and other Deputies did hear me imploring the Minister for Local Government to sanction the building of a scheme of houses in my own constituency. He protested that they did not want the houses; he tried to get them to change the method of building the houses and to change the designs. He asked all sorts of questions in an effort to hold up the building of these houses to such an extent that he was responsible for the emigration of a certain number of tradesmen and quite a number of builders' labourers. Now he seems to have had second thoughts and recently he sent out a circular which said in effect to the local authority: "Do what you like as far as the building of houses is concerned." It is a little too late, not alone from the point of view of employment, but from the point of view of the provision of houses. There are areas where houses are required, but the building operatives are not there to build them because the Minister for Local Government held up sanction so long that the tradesmen could not wait. They had to provide for themselves, for their wives and their children and they had to seek employment elsewhere.

I believe expenditure to keep Irishmen at home is worthwhile. Many people have sneered in this House from time to time at what they like to call the provision of relief work. If it keeps Irishmen at home it is worth while. We hear a lot of talk about the efforts to establish industry around Shannon Airport. I do not know what success has attended their efforts but the Taoiseach and the Minister for Industry and Commerce appear to be confident that we are undergoing an industrial revival, if not an industrial revolution, and one would get the impression that factories, if not going up now, will be erected very shortly. If that is the case, if the Taoiseach and members of the Government, and especially the Minister for Industry and Commerce, have confidence in this revolution, if they are confident that we will have the factories, whether of German, Japanese or any other origin; they should try to ensure the workers will be here to man the factories.

Emphasis in recent years has been on the expenditure of State moneys for works of a productive nature. I do not disagree with making grants to the agricultural industry towards greater production. I know that will have a two or three-fold result. Employment of men on making a road or on other such work may not have many results. It may have only the one result, that of giving employment. However, it may also have the result of keeping men in this country.

Even though this Government have been in office for twenty-two or twenty-three years I do not hold them entirely responsible for emigration but the Government should try to ensure that we will not lose many more people. For that reason they should make more money available to keep these people employed for twelve months of the year. They may say they are bound by certain regulations as to the amount of money they may give to local authorities for winter relief schemes. It has been reduced all over the country this year because the figure for the register of unemployed shows a reduction. Even though that is the type of employment which has been given for the past 20 or 30 years, it does not do a lot of good.

I doubt if it keeps many at home.

It does not keep many at home but if the Government provided employment for these men for twelve months of the year they would be kept at home. It is no consolation for a man to get employment for six weeks. It is like throwing a crust to a hungry dog to keep the pain out of his belly for six weeks. He will get it for the other 46 weeks. Whatever economists or the members of the Government may say, if we are to display confidence in our ability to improve industry and agriculture we should be prepared to provide money to keep men in employment all the year around and thus keep them at home.

I should like formally to second the motion and reserve the right to speak later.

I should like to support this motion because, even though I have no confidence that if this motion was implemented it would make much difference, it gives us an opportunity to warn the Government once more of the desperate position that obtains in rural Ireland to-day. While I was listening to Deputy Corish I could hardly believe the callous approach of the Parliamentary Secretary. It was almost unbelievable that he would be so ill-equipped with facts and figures as to what was taking place in rural Ireland, in view of the vast machinery at his disposal, as a member of the Government, to obtain those facts. I do not know why the Parliamentary Secretary was selected to take this motion; presumably, it is because he is acting on behalf of the Minister for Finance. That being the case—I presume it is—I feel that the motion, without any disrespect to the Parliamentary Secretary, should have the attention of the Minister for Finance himself.

The Parliamentary Secretary has told us that good news is on the way, that a number of schemes sent forward by local authorities and other interested groups are being examined and will receive sanction at some unknown date in the future. To a great extent, we know what lists of proposals were submitted and it is no use fooling ourselves that these proposals, even if they are sanctioned, will make any real impact on the unemployment and emigration situation. Undoubtedly such proposals as that for the development, the growing and processing of fruit and vegetables, are ones which there should be no delay implementing, but I have been listening for the past 18 months to news items and I have heard various public people telling us that this processing of fruit and vegetables was about to be started. So far, in the west, at any rate, which is the area where that business should be concentrated, we have seen little signs of progress.

To meet the situation obtaining in rural Ireland today, we need a lot more than this motion implies. We need a planned organisation of all the rural areas. We want to see development taking place on an organised basis, so that the small farmer and the worker will not be subject to the ups and downs of a market as they are at the moment, and the produce of the small holdings will be paid for at a reasonable price and on a stable basis. At the same time, we want to see a situation in which the worker will get continuous employment and not, as at the moment, three or six months' work in the year and is then thrown on the labour market for the remainder of the year.

It is not difficult to understand why a great deal of emigration takes place. The best elements in rural areas are not prepared to hang around week after week in the hope of getting a fortnight's or three weeks' work. The main thing required amongst the people of rural Ireland today, and indeed elsewhere, is security, with a good living wage. Both are absent, except in so far as the organised groups of the community are concerned. It all boils down to the fact that no real effort has been made in the past 40 years to develop our natural resources and build our industries on what we have here, namely, our own raw materials which are in the ground.

We appear to have an inferiority complex with regard to the raw materials available in our own country. We appear to have a slave mentality in that gentlemen from Germany, Japan, France, America and elsewhere receive more attention and greater respect than the Irishman who is prepared to help. We are more willing to spend Irish money on helping some foreigner to come in and set up an industry than to pour that Irish money into a State concern, which would organise the particular industry right from the raw material stage until the finished product was available for the market. The producer is exploited to the limit, so far as prices are concerned. We know that these people with control of the market can manipulate to their hearts' content and——

I feel that the Deputy is getting away from the motion, which deals specifically with the question of financial assistance to local authorities. It does not open up a complete debate on the whole question of industrial progress in the country.

I concede that. I feel that since the motion was put down, the situation has become so serious that it would be impossible to deal with it within the terms of the motion. However, I propose to stay within the limits of the motion. The Parliamentary Secretary mentioned that the erection of swimming pools had been proposed by local authorities and that there are grants available. That is desirable, but I also feel that other proposals of a more important nature were made by several local authorities and that so far these proposals have been given a deaf ear.

For instance, I will point out to the Parliamentary Secretary that Roscommon County Council and other councils have requested and urged the Government to restore the Local Authorities (Works) Act. That was enacted to allow local authorities to undertake very important minor drainage schemes in order to relieve flooded lands and make those lands fit for production. It is heartbreaking at the moment, in my constituency, at any rate, to see excellent land covered with water. That has been the case through the summer up to the present. It is little consolation to the small farmers, who were put to the pin of their collars, even with that land in good shape, to make a living from it, to know that the Government are prepared to make a lot of money available for the setting up of industries based on raw materials from abroad and for the construction of swimming pools in small towns.

Our sense of priorities is slightly mixed, I fear, when it comes to deciding what is of first importance in the rural areas. There is no use in telling a small farmer that you want him to produce more if you do not make the money available to him to put his land in suitable condition so that greater production can be obtained. When I hear on the wireless the nauseating appeals of this Taoiseach and of the gentleman now "wired in" above in the Park——

The Deputy may not refer to the President in that manner.

I shall restrain myself. When I listen to the appeals made by these gentlemen over the years for more production from the agricultural community, I find that, if more is produced, no attempt whatever is made by the people making the appeals to see that there is a market and to prevent exploitation of the producers.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary tell us whether the Government at this stage are prepared to restore the Local Authorities (Works) Act? It cannot be denied that first-class work was done in most counties. He knows that his political group have joined with other members of the local authority in Roscommon to urge the restoration of this Act. I can tell the Parliamentary Secretary that the position is such that if the present rate of emigration from Roscommon and Leitrim continues for another 10 years there is no hope of retrieving it. The last 18 months are frightening so far as emigration is concerned.

I shall put it this way: the true picture is not disclosed in the unemployment figures. Everything one says in this House can be produced against one but I want to go on record as saying that when the census returns are available, possibly next September or October, we shall all get a real fright so far as the emigration position is concerned in the west of Ireland. Entire families—not just girls and boys or the fathers—are moving out; first-class houses are locked up. I wonder does the Parliamentary Secretary realise the impact of that on a county when it reaches the stage such as it has reached, for instance, in the townland of Frenchpark, County Roscommon, where 30 years ago 35 families lived? Three weeks ago that figure was reduced to 12. Last Tuesday two more families left for England and on Saturday a third family is leaving the area. That means there are nine families left after 35 years.

That picture is the same in every western county. It is shocking when we hear the Government tell us that there are 99 new factories set up and that the employment figures are satisfactory when the very foundation stock of the country are getting out of it. When they go we cannot do much about it; Ireland will be like a man lying in bed with his life blood pouring from him. He cannot lift himself up and recover. If we lose the foundation stock of our country we shall go down. We shall have others to come in, of course, but I do not want to see the situation in which what is left of the population will be the least virile, the least fit for initiative and least fit to keep the country as it should be. What we shall have left will be what I can only describe as Firbolgs.

Let me put this to the Parliamentary Secretary. I must stay within the terms of the motion and I find that difficult. For instance, drainage in County Roscommon and County Leitrim would have a number of good effects. It would give employment, even though only temporarily, and the limited amount of land available to smallholders would be extended. What do we find instead? In the west of Ireland we find that the Government have found it very economic to direct local authorities to use the greatest possible amount of machinery for road making. We have no money available for land reclamation so far as the Local Authorities (Works) Act is concerned but we have plenty for making roads. This is the alternative—the Government are taking credit for the fact that they have increased the amount of money for rural improvement schemes. Where is that money going? In the west of Ireland, or at least in Roscommon, in the last 12 months, the number employed is down by 30 to 35 per cent. on the previous year as regards road works due to the technical advice given regarding the making of roads.

Take a small farmer with a valuation of from £5 to £10 who budgets each year for about three months' work with the local authority to enable him to buy necessities over and above what he can earn on his small-holding. We now find that where six such smallholders had three months' work each year, a machine is doing the work of the six. One man, perhaps, is making £5 to £7 a day for machinery but the six families are out of work. The man with the machinery, who may be from some other part of the country, is not spending money among the small shopkeepers; this money is not spent in the small towns. We find that the machinery he uses is imported, as are also the tyres and the fuel he uses to run the machine.

The reaction that sets in all over a county as a result of this new approach means that the workers suffer, their families suffer and the shopkeepers who supply them suffer; the drapers, the shoemakers and even the local church suffers in the long run. I wonder is this a new approach to the problem of rural Ireland? Is it a deliberate attempt to get rid of the small farmers in the west of Ireland?

Hear, hear!

Over the years, we have been told that every possible effort would be made to give them continuity of employment through the winter months and that the Land Commission, where possible, would relieve congestion to their limited ability. I shall not enter into the question of land division because I hold different views on it from the majority of the members of the House. The Government must have decided, at last, that rural Ireland, and in particular the west of Ireland, was too much of a burden for the new industrial group to carry.

Hear, hear!

It would appear that the decision arrived at was: "Let us get them off our backs; let us send them to the emigrant ship and let them go over to England; and let us as an alternative or a sop for those who remain, bring in the Messieurs or the Herren"—I do not know what they are called in Japan—"on the basis that we have a cheap pool of labour in Ireland." The whole countryside around us is to be denuded of its foundation stock. That is why the motion is necessary. It is desirable to try to impress on the Government the necessity for making more money available to local authorities. It is only tinkering with the problem and we must have an opportunity at the earliest possible stage to have a full-scale discussion here on this haemorrhage from rural Ireland.

I should like to give the Parliamentary Secretary an example of what was brought to my attention a week ago. In the town of Burrin, four families of what are often uncharitably described as the tinker group, comprising 25 people, sold their caravans, their horses, their equipment, went down to the local second-hand shop and left in their shawls and other local costumery, togged themselves out and departed to Halifax for permanent work. When we see that happening, and when we find those groups going, it is quite clear that there is a pinch in rural Ireland. I know for a fact that a number of the people concerned have never been out of the west and would be the last to leave Ireland. Some of them have never been as far as Dublin, and were petrified with fear at the thought of what faced them when they got to Dublin, and what it would be like in England. Yet things were so bad in that area of north Roscommon that, in spite of their fears of an unknown land, they were prepared to set sail because they could not get enough to keep them going in that locality.

As I say, the best we can expect from this motion is that the Government will make plenty of money available to the local authorities for productive work, and do everything possible at this stage to hold the existing population until alternative plans are made and a properly organised system made available to rural Ireland which will help the producers, control the exploiters and secure stable markets abroad for our products. That will not be done overnight and I do not expect it to be done overnight. We want to see the plans of this Government—not blue papers or blueprints but actual concrete plans—which should now be available after the time they have been in office.

I do not know why the people have so much patience. I do not know the real reason they do not rise up and tear asunder the members of a political Party that can look so callously on their situation. It is incredible to me that people will go to the polling booths and cast their votes for members of this House who seem to have no influence whatever on the city mentality group they are part and parcel of. It would appear that rural Deputies of the Fianna Fáil Party at the moment carry no more weight than a feather in the matter of impressing on the Taoiseach and members of the Cabinet the seriousness of the position. Members of this House from the West of Ireland, no matter to what Party they belong, are fully aware of the seriousness of the position, and surely they speak in the Party councils. If they do, it shows how little influence they carry because there is no attempt to hold the people on the land in the west of Ireland.

As I said, I support this motion. What we need is a state of emergency declared at this stage to grapple with the frightening problem of emigration. I urge on the Government that as much money as possible should be poured into rural Ireland, because this is an emergency.

We set down this motion to bring home to the Government the problem of employment in many parts of the country and particularly in the more remote and isolated parts. It is indeed peculiar that we should, in the fourth year of the reign of the Government, be debating such a motion this evening. Anyone who listened to the statements made by the leading members of the Government Party, and by lesser members as well, during the election campaign that brought them into office in 1957, would believe that in the latter part of the year 1960, our unemployment problem would be completely solved.

I may say at this stage that our intention in putting down this motion was not to seize an opportunity of criticising the Government but, as I mentioned at the outset, to bring home to them the position of many of our people who cannot obtain a livelihood in this country and, as pointed out by the previous speaker, have to go abroad to earn a livelihood. I think it is incumbent upon us, and particularly upon the Government, to take every measure possible to ensure that employment of a productive nature is made available to them here.

I shall not delay the House unduly by quoting statements made during the last general election by members of the Government Party and statements made here in the House during the period in office of the inter-Party Government from 1954 to 1957. These statements have been quoted here on previous occasions, particularly the famous—I suppose we can now legitimately term it "infamous"—statement by the Taoiseach in O'Connell Street, Dublin, that if he were returned to office, he would provide work for all and sundry. Indeed, he said he could provide work for more people than were actually seeking work; 100,000 extra jobs would be provided if Fianna Fáil were returned to power.

It serves no useful purpose to reiterate these statements now, but we all know now that they were not factual statements. It is unfortunate that the leader of the Government should use—and I must use the term, though I dislike it—deceitful methods in order to get Fianna Fáil back into power. We all know now that these 100,000 jobs have not been provided. I venture to assert that not even 1,000 jobs have been provided since the change of Government in 1957.

There were more jobs provided than were provided by the inter-Party Government, anyway.

Deputy Galvin will have an opportunity of addressing the House on this motion, if he has anything to say on it. There are useful schemes which would be very suitable in the rural areas, which would provide employment in areas in which it is badly needed and add to the general economy of the country. Again and again, we have addressed ourselves here to the urgency of drainage works, the desirability of doing these works in order to improve land which is now subject to flooding, and providing people with productive employment.

It must be admitted by the Parliamentary Secretary, and I suppose it must be admitted, too, by my colleague from Cork, Deputy Galvin, that the Government who replaced Fianna Fáil, when Fianna Fáil were out of office, set themselves in no uncertain manner to the task of providing useful schemes in districts where such schemes were needed. The most useful of all was the Local Authorities (Works) Act. For the information of Deputy Galvin, I understand that practically all local authorities have unanimously made representations to the Fianna Fáil Government to make money available under that Act to do the work for which that Act was designed. Surely county councils controlled by the Parliamentary Secretary's Party would not make such representations without having good grounds for them. Everybody knows there are good grounds for them.

It is interesting to note that neither the Taoiseach, nor any of his Ministers stated during the election campaign in 1957 that if they were returned to office, one of their first actions would be to withdraw the moneys made available under the Local Authorities (Works) Act and, as a result, create unemployment in many parts of the country.

Another scheme which was of great benefit in remote parts was the rural improvements scheme. It was utilised very fully in the constituency I represent. Subsequent to the return of Fianna Fáil to office, applicants for these schemes were informed that the local contributions were to be increased substantially. The average increase is in or around 100 per cent. The result is the farmers are not able to avail of these schemes today. In view of the hardships the increased contribution has imposed, together with the likelihood of farmers not being able to proceed with their applications because of the increased contribution, I appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary now to review the matter and reduce the local contribution to the figure at which it stood prior to Fianna Fáil returning to office. The Parliamentary Secretary must be well aware of the advantages of these schemes— making roadways, providing minor drainage works, and providing, too, a good deal of employment, and some of that employment for small farmers anxious to supplement the incomes from their small holdings.

In the year 1958-59, since the increased contributions came into operation, I understand a sum of in or around £90,000 has not been expended. It has not been expended because the local people are not able to meet the excessive contributions demanded by the Fianna Fáil Government. We have at present representations—most members, I am sure, have similar representations—from people seeking employment. I believe the obligation is on the Government to help these people to get employment as they are entitled to obtain it.

To implement this motion would not cost a great deal of money, having regard to the total expenditure of the State. I feel sure that if the Parliamentary Secretary made available, say, £500,000 for these useful and beneficial schemes, it would go a long way towards meeting the present position, particularly for the winter months. The Parliamentary Secretary smiles. As Deputy McQuillan said a while ago, if people came in from outside and sought £500,000, more facilities would be granted to them than are being granted at present to the many workers and the many uneconomic holders throughout a fair portion of this country who cannot make a reasonable livelihood.

As the debate on this motion has a three hours' limit, I do not want to stand in the way of other speakers who intend to contribute, but before concluding, I want to refer to minor employment schemes—schemes which are operated without any local contribution. As the Parliamentary Secretary must be aware, it is almost impossible to get approval for one of these schemes at present.

That would scarcely arise on the motion. The regulations governing employment schemes are not before us. The motion relates to financial assistance to local authorities.

Since this motion was set down, we had a circular from the Minister for Local Government to local authorities asking them to submit suitable schemes. This matter was the subject of a Question on to-day's Order Paper. It was clearly elicited from the Minister that of the numerous schemes submitted by the authorities throughout the length and breadth of this country, he could not point to one scheme approved. What is the use of labouring that point? We disposed of that question to-day when the Minister for Finance had to admit that of all the schemes submitted by the local authorities, not a single solitary one has been approved. The Parliamentary Secretary will not deny that as it was made clear in the course of Supplementary Questions.

The purpose of sending out this circular to local authorities was to secure time for the Government or to give the people the impression that they were about to do something. It is not unusual for the Government Party to speak of prosperity around the corner. Fianna Fáil always tell us of plans they have for the future and the same applies when they are out of office. These Fianna Fáil plans always seem to stay around the corner. The Labour Party, by way of this motion, want the Government to make some supplementary funds available to local authorities or to the Special Employment Schemes Office for the carrying out of schemes of a useful nature.

Since the motion was set down, it has been made quite clear that now that powers in respect of drainage work are being withdrawn from the local authorities, they are vested in the Office of Public Works. It is almost 12 months since the Minister for Local Government and the Parliamentary Secretary made that statement but not a single scheme of any kind has been implemented since that announcement was made by the Office of Public Works or at least I have not heard of it. The only move is another of a stalling nature. They sent along a few inspectors with maps and books who walked up and down some rivers and who were supposed to make a survey.

Has this any relation to local authorities and the motion in the Deputy's name?

Of course it has. The motion deals mainly with the creation of useful employment. I am pointing out that the hopes we had from the statement about the Office of Public Works carrying out drainage schemes have not been realised.

The policy of the Office of Public Works on drainage is not in this motion but rather financial assistance to local authorities for the relief of unemployment.

The most useful system of assistance to local authorities for the relief of unemployment would be assistance by way of giving them back the powers to carry out these drainage works. I do not want to repeat that because all the Ministers state they do not propose to do so. Then this question arises: are they prepared to make available to local authorities increased sums for road improvement works? Local authorities and in particular the local authority of which I am a member, the Cork County Council, have again and again during the past few years made requests to the Government for an additional sum of money from the Road Fund, on the basis that the number of vehicles now using the roads has substantially increased and that even if it does not go into the Road Fund, the Government has benefited to a very substantial extent from the petrol duty. That being the case, it would not be inappropriate for the Government to give more substantial grants to local authorities for road improvement works and thereby not only help to provide a better road system, particularly in relation to the smaller roads——

They get every penny out of the Road Fund and more —what they did not get when you were in Government.

The Parliamentary Secretary will agree that as a result of the increased number of vehicles now using the roads, the income of the Government from petrol taxation has substantially increased and that the time has now arrived for a changed policy on the allocation of grants for road works.

They get every penny out of the Road Fund. It is not raided for any other purpose.

The Road Fund is indeed only one part of the money that the Government derive from road traffic. Does the Parliamentary Secretary not know very well that the bigger amount is the amount which comes by way of duty from petrol taxation on those using the roads? Will he inform the House of the actual income from that source during the past 12 months? Is the Parliamentary Secretary not also aware that because of the increase in the number of vehicles on the roads, the grants should be increased correspondingly in order to provide a better road system? Naturally the roads will deteriorate more with more vehicles using them.

The Deputy is advocating that we put more money into the roads.

Debate adjourned.
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