Vol. 189 No. 11
andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether any European nation may apply for membership of the European Economic Community; whether Ireland is in any way restricted from making such application at once; and if the final decision to be made by the Government concerning Irish membership of the E.E.C. depends on the success or failure of present negotiations by Britain seeking membership.
5.
andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether there are any circumstances in which Ireland would seek membership of the E.E.C., independent of British membership of that Community.
With your permission, Sir, I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 and 5 together.
Under Article 237 of the Rome Treaty, "any European State may apply to become a member of the Community". The Council, consisting of representatives of the Member Governments, pronounces on each application by means of a unanimous vote after obtaining the opinion of the Commission; and the conditions of membership and the amendments to the Treaty necessitated thereby would be the subject of an agreement between the Member States and the applicant State.
Formally, there is nothing whatever to prevent this country applying independently for membership of the Community. As I explained, however, in the statement I made to the House on this subject on the 16th May, there are very good reasons of an economic nature against our entering the European Economic Community while Britain remains outside.
Arising out of the Taoiseach's reply to those two questions and the previous three, in view of his own statement that the widest possible discussion would be welcomed by him and the Government on the difficulties and problems appertaining to our entry to the Common Market, would he not agree that it is necessary for him at this stage to put into a White Paper all the raw material to enable this House to debate the matter at length.
It is not at present possible to do that usefully. I have already informed the House that I will make arrangements to give them information which will enable Deputies fully to understand the position when definite information is available to the Government.
Surely the Taoiseach will agree it is desirable at this stage that the House should get an opportunity of discussing especially the question of agricultural policy in view of the fact that some of his Ministers, the Minister for Education, the Minister for Lands and other Ministers, over the past fortnight have embarked on a campaign of speeches throughout the country to enlighten the public in regard to the position. Surely this House should have an opportunity to discuss all aspects of this problem before Ministers proceed to give their own version?
So far as the European Economic Community is concerned, there is as yet no agricultural policy to discuss.
I appreciate the Taoiseach appears to be as uncertain on many aspects of this question as other members of the House. Would he not agree that in order to try to get rid of this uncertainty and in order to obtain some facts about it enabling us to consider the whole matter, the best approach would be to open negotiations for admission? Then we would be in possession of the facts which would enable us to decide whether we should join or not?
I have already expressed my view that the time is not opportune.
We must wait to see what the British are doing.
Which means we are not doing anything.
If it is opportune for the British, why is it not opportune for us?
The position is that the British Government have not yet taken a decision.
Is it not a fact that the whole British judgment of the merits of this European Economic Community has been wrong from the very beginning, that their assessment of it in the beginning, since the establishment of the Common Market——
I cannot allow a debate to develop.
——has been completely erroneous and we have not——
I am quite certain our judgment has not been erroneous and that we have been pursuing the interests of this country in dealing with the situation without any error so far.
Is it not a fact that this Government and the British Government a few years ago believed that the Common Market would get nowhere and that they would never have to face the position——
It was certainly never my belief.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that the type of information which he gave to the Junior Chamber of Commerce in Killarney over the weekend and to other associations would be better given to the members of the Dáil?
I gave no information to the members of the Junior Chamber of Commerce that has not been given to the Dáil or that is not available to everybody in published documents, including the Treaty of Rome.
I do not think the Taoiseach ever made a speech on this subject in the Dáil as fully as he made it, say, to the Junior Chamber of Commerce. I do not take any exception to his doing that. He did not give full information; he speculated. It was understandable speculation to some extent. I think, therefore, a debate on this matter would be very desirable at this stage. Nobody wants to embarrass the Taoiseach or the Government in this delicate matter. However, I think we should have a debate in this House on the whole matter.
In the Government's view, there is at present no proposition to be put to the Dáil for debate. If any Deputies think there is such a proposition that can usefully be debated here, I shall be glad to consider it when it is submitted.
Mr. McQuillan rose.
Question No. 8, addressed to the Minister for Health.
Surely there is room for discussion in view of the fact that the common agricultural policy pursued by highly industrialised countries is likely to have a detrimental effect on the small farming community in Ireland.
Order!
It may be quite-some time before there is anything to debate so far as agricultural policy is concerned. One estimate which I have seen is that there may not be a common agricultural policy finally determined for ten years.
At least we have now extracted some information from the Taoiseach.
Order!
This is a very important matter.
Order!
Question No. 8.
The Taoiseach is like Mr. Micawber. He is waiting for something to turn up.
If the Taoiseach gave this House the information he should give it, this question would not be on the Order Paper.
