Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 1 Mar 1962

Vol. 193 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Vote 45 — Transport and Power.

Minister for Transport and Power (Mr. Childers)

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £10,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1962, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Transport and Power, including certain Services administered by that Office, and for payment of sundry Grants-in-Aid.

This Estimate is necessary to provide the additional sum of £150,000 required for constructional works at Cork Airport and £91,000 for tourism making a total of £241,000 against which it has been found possible to set off savings of £201,000 on other sub-heads of the Vote, together with estimated additional receipts under Appropriations-in-Aid of £30,000 leaving the net sum required at £10,000.

The excess in the case of Cork Airport is due mainly to the fact that extras and variations on the contract for the Airport buildings will exceed those provided for in the Estimate by about £100,000. In addition, payments under the contract, excluding extras, will exceed those provided for by about £50,000. This is due to the fact that constructional works for which provision was made in the 1960/61 Estimate were retarded by bad weather in that year with the result that expenditure in respect of the delayed works did not fall due for payment until the current year.

It will be appreciated that as Cork Airport was a completely new project, it was not possible to give accurate estimates on all aspects of the work. For instance, demands for accommodation in excess of that originally planned arose while construction was actually in progress.

As regards tourism, the functions previously vested in the Minister for Industry and Commerce were transferred to me by Order made by the Government on 31st October, 1961. Since then, the sums provided for tourism in the Industry and Commerce Vote have continued to be used to finance the activities of Bord Fáilte. These sums comprise £500,000 for administration and general purposes, £100,000 for the making of grants under the scheme for the development of major tourist resorts and £100,000 for the payment of grants towards the development of holiday accommodation — a total of £700,000. I am now proposing that additional funds be made available to the Board under two of those subheads — those for general purposes and for holiday accommodation grants.

The £500,000 voted earlier in the financial year for administration and general purposes was the maximum sum that could be voted under the then existing legislation. Deputies will recall, however, that the annual limit on the Board's general grant-in-aid was removed by the Tourist Traffic Act, 1961, which was enacted in August last. The purpose of that Act was to enable expenditure on tourism to be increased for a limited period and accordingly provision was made for a global sum of £5 million, from which payment will be made to Bord Fáilte of such sums as may be determined each year by the Minister for Transport and Power, with the consent of the Minister for Finance.

It is desirable that the period of increased investment in tourism should be commenced without delay and accordingly this Supplementary Estimate includes provision for an additional £71,500 for the Board's general purposes grant for the current year. This sum will be applied towards the development of our tourist facilities— the improvement of road signposting, the provision of better access to national monuments and places of interest, assistance to schemes for the training of hotel staff and so on — and to increased efforts to attract visitors, through general publicity and advertising abroad and through special campaigns, such as the June Holiday Plan.

It also includes a sum of £15,000 for the payment of interest grants on loans raised by hoteliers and guest house proprietors for improvement and development works. These grants are paid in approved cases to assist in meeting interest charges for a period of five years. The scheme has proved a most effective incentive and, with the other forms of financial aid offered by Bord Fáilte, has stimulated substantially increased investment by the hotel industry.

More than £1 million is now being invested annually in the provision and improvement of accommodation and as a result I expect that the number of registered bedrooms, which a few years ago stood at about 16,000 and was tending to fall, will reach 20,000 next year. Over 3,000 of these will have private baths — a facility for which there is increasing demand. This is a very welcome development as it marks a breakthrough in the field of accommodation which was for some years a barrier to the expansion of the tourist industry.

The increased rate of investment in hotel development works has also involved Bord Fáilte in greater commitments for the payment of cash grants in respect of additional bedrooms and general improvement works. These grants are financed from the fund of £500,000 established under the Tourist Traffic Act, 1959, and as a result of the accelerated rate of development the sum of £100,000 provided for the current year has proved insufficient by about £19,500. Provision is therefore being made for the voting of this sum to the Board under the appropriate subhead, making a total additional sum of £91,000 for tourism.

I should mention that there is expected to be a saving on the Board's other subhead — that for resort development grants — of about £22,000. This saving is not due to any cut back in expenditure on resort development but to the fact that the initial steps in getting development under way at local level have taken a little longer than expected. That saving will, of course, occur in the Industry and Commerce Vote and it is not possible to apply it towards the increased commitments of Bord Fáilte for the services now under consideration. It does, in fact, reduce the additional expenditure on tourism this year from £91,000 to £69,000.

It is not many months since Deputies had an opportunity, on the occasion of the passage through the Oireachtas of the Tourist Traffic Bill, 1961, for a full debate on the tourist industry. It would not be appropriate, therefore, to undertake any major review of the industry at this stage. However, as this is the first occasion on which I have come before the Dáil in my capacity as Minister responsible for tourism, it is fitting that I should refer briefly to the progress that has been made and to plans for the future. There has been a welcome expansion in tourist traffic in recent years. In 1960, we had a total of more than 4½ million visitors, and their expenditure here, which is an important factor in closing the gap in our balance of payments, amounted to £42.4 million. The 1961 figures are not yet available but the upward trend was well maintained and visitors' expenditure is estimated to have reached £47 million. While this is on the whole a fairly satisfactory situation, I believe that even better results could be achieved by an accelerated rate of investment in tourism during the next few years. The entitlement of workers to longer paid holidays, the rise in individual incomes and the general improvement in living standards are factors which make for continuous growth in international travel.

We cannot, however, expect to get our share of increasing tourist traffic without proper planning. We have one of the best countries in the world for holidays but we must publicise it more effectively and convince as many as possible of the people of Britain, United States and Europe that it is worth visiting. That means imaginative and well planned publicity and advertising, not only by Bord Fáilte but by those deriving their livelihood from the tourist trade, particularly regional groups of hotels working in mutual collaboration. We also need a special effort to extend the season and to bring more visitors in June and September.

I have great hopes for the success of the Bord Fáilte June Holiday Plan which is based on reduced tariffs and a special promotion campaign. We must try to educate our people towards holidays outside the peak months of July and August. The country is at its best in June, the days are longer and the weather is better. The Autumn also has its own special attractions when the glorious colours of the landscape, especially in Kerry and along the West Coast, are a delight to the eye. Our golden Autumn could, I am sure, be exploited as a special attraction for visitors and I am confident that in this way, and with an intensive June campaign, we could achieve a worthwhile extension at both ends of the holiday season.

I attach great importance to the promotion of group business through organised special-interest holidays. This is already being done in the angling areas but it could be extended to other activities — golfing, river cruising, garden or botanical tours, cultural events and so on. We can also offer very attractive facilities for motoring visitors, who find our uncrowded roads a pleasant change from the congestion elsewhere. Sailing is another sphere in which we have many advantages to offer, especially along the south coast which has everything a yachtsman could desire. These facilities, if suitably developed and publicised, could attract considerable numbers of additional visitors from Britain and other countries.

While it is important that we should engage in intensive overseas publicity and advertising, the benefits of these efforts will be lost unless we ensure an enjoyable time for our visitors. Word-of-mouth publicity is probably more effective than any other medium and it is essential therefore that our overseas tourists should return home well pleased with their stay in Ireland. They should be made to feel welcome here and we should do everything we can to provide more indoor entertainment in our hotels, to let them hear our Irish singing and music and sample the best of our Irish foods.

Bord Fáilte and the other groups concerned with the tourist industry are doing a very good job but we must not rest on our laurels. The next few years are of great importance if we are to maintain our place against other competing countries. It is vital therefore that Bord Fáilte should be given the necessary funds to get on with the job and accordingly I recommend that the House approve of this Supplementary Estimate.

Mr. Cosgrave

I notice that some of the money required in this Supplementary Estimate is necessary to complete the construction work at Cork Airport. I should be interested to hear from the Minister what the position is about the air fare vis-á-vis the train fare. I understand there was some alteration recently as a result of the Minister's intervention. It seems to me that whatever either company finds is satisfactory is a matter which might well be left to the company concerned. Both companies, Aer Lingus and Córas Iompair Éireann, are State companies. Both are subsidised. There does not seem to me to be any strong objection to subsidising one form of transport as against another. If a subsidy is involved, the taxpayer is paying, and it does not seem to matter a great deal whether the subsidy goes to an air company or a surface transport company. I should be interested to know the effect of the alteration in the fare.

Mr. Childers

There is no subsidy for the airport.

Mr. Cosgrave

Aer Lingus has in the past received subsidies.

Mr. Childers

They are not receiving any now.

Mr. Cosgrave

Aer Lingus is not, but the international airline is.

Mr. Childers

The only thing is that the capital is not remunerated, but it is not receiving a current operating subsidy.

Mr. Cosgrave

So far the capital has not been remunerated?

Mr. Childers

No.

Mr. Cosgrave

The losses have not been repaid?

Mr. Childers

There is no dividend being paid on the capital.

Mr. Donegan

You are not paying interest on your overdraft. Is not that the position?

Mr. Childers

That is not the position at all.

Mr. Donegan

It is very near it.

Mr. Cosgrave

In a matter of this sort, there is a good deal to be said for leaving things to the companies concerned. I should be interested to know what effect the alteration has had on the number of passengers using either the rail service or the air service.

The proposal to provide increased grants for tourist development is one that will be welcomed generally. In recent years there has been a growing realisation that the tourist industry is a valuable one; it is one in which the country gains a great many benefits for a relatively lower expenditure than that incurred on enterprises of a different character. It has the added advantage that the benefits are dispersed over a wide area, embracing cities and towns, and predominating in the rural areas because of the visits tourists make to different parts. Efforts to extend the tourist season are undoubtedly desirable, just as desirable as the provision for increased accommodation and facilities generally.

One of the deterrents which have operated to prevent greater advantage being taken by hoteliers and guesthouse owners of the grants and loans available is the fact that, when reconstruction or renovation work is done, premises are liable to revaluation. That is something with which Bord Fáilte and the Department should concern themselves, even if it involves some change in the present position. The effect must be considerable although the increased business as a result of extension and modernisation may off-set to some extent, at any rate, the disadvantages of revaluation.

I should be interested in hearing the views of the Minister as to whether An Bord Fáilte and his Department consider a change desirable in the licensing laws in holiday resorts. Licensing laws invariably give rise to conflict of opinion but it would seem from views pretty generally expressed that the operation of the present licensing laws has had an adverse effect on holiday resorts.

Among the most successful tourist attractions in recent years have been the events sponsored by individual organisations, either by the combined efforts of groups or the efforts of single bodies, such as the Hospitals Trust, in promoting the international golf competition at Woodbrook. The success of these events, the fact that they are run in a most efficient way, the quality of the course as well as the quality of the reception and treatment afforded to those who compete in them and the visitors who come to watch them, have all reflected credit on the promoters. They will undoubtedly help to attract visitors here, only some of whom might come on holiday but who come because of their direct interest or participation in the particular event.

Similarly, this year, the decision to hold the Irish Hospital Sweepstakes Derby at the Curragh, which will be the most valuable flat race in Europe, must attract to this country a great number of visitors as well as those directly concerned in the race itself. If it is possible to encourage still further organisations and clubs throughout the country to organise specific events, then it seems that the success which has attended the events already organised is an indication of what value might be attached to the promotion of particular sporting events and events in other spheres, drama, theatre and so on, such as the Cork Film Festival, the Wexford Festival, which all in their own way have contributed greatly to the publicity about particular localities, as well as the skill, ability and cultural standards of our people.

These events, in so far as some of them are held outside the peak holiday period, extend the tourist season. In other cases, the event may take place within the peak period but they attract here people who might not otherwise come. I have no doubt that if any encouragement is necessary, it will be given. It is, I think, significant that some of the most successful events, whether sporting, cultural or musical, have been organised and promoted either by individual concerns or voluntary groups working together, rather than by any direct intervention by the Department or Bord Fáilte. To the extent that they have been a success, the greatest possible credit and thanks are due to those directly concerned and reflect the highest credit on their ability and organising capacity.

I have no doubt that the fact that an increased number of tourists have been coming here over a number of years will continue, more especially when the standard of accommodation provided in the hotels and guest houses here is being progressively raised. Any criticism which visitors or our own holidaymakers have is undoubtedly a reflection on the standard of service. It is up to the hoteliers themselves and the guest house proprietors to provide the best standard possible. The best advertisement is a satisfied customer. No amount of publicity, no amount of propaganda, can replace a well-satisfied customer. When he or she returns home either to Ireland or abroad, he or she is the best advertisement. I have no doubt our hoteliers and guest house owners recognise that and are making strenuous efforts to provide the highest standard of service.

Mr. Corish

This is not the time for a general review of tourism and I have only a few points to raise. First, however, I should like to say that we certainly approve of what the Minister is doing in seeking this extra money for Cork Airport and for certain other aspects of tourism. It was, I think, a wise decision of the Government to transfer responsibility for tourism from the Minister for Industry and Commerce to the Minister for Transport and Power, or perhaps I should say from the Ministry of Industry and Commerce to the Ministry of Transport and Power.

I do not mean any reflection on the present Minister for Industry and Commerce. Industry and Commerce embraces so many things and the Minister has such a heavy responsibility that the transfer of tourism to the Minister for Transport and Power is a welcome change. Nor do I suggest that the Minister for Transport and Power is less competent than the Minister for Industry and Commerce. I think he has a certain amount of imagination. He has shown in other Departments that he has that imagination. I know that as far as tourism is concerned, he will try to promote it in this country as an industry, which is as it should be.

I should like to ask the Minister a simple question, which is asked by everybody in the country. We are told from year to year that tourism means so much to the country, £30 million, £40 million or £45 million, but how do we know that? It is very easy to say how much the country gets from industry, agriculture or the export of a particular commodity, but we get, for instance, the figure that, in 1960, the tourist industry brought in an income of £42.4 million. Who assesses that? Is it a rough estimate? Thousands of people come across here from England and there does not seem to be any check on the amount spent by them in hotels or on entertainment or gambling. I do not question this figure but I should like to know how it is arrived at. I know there may be a certain check on the amounts spent by visitors coming from countries other than Britain and the Commonwealth, but I cannot understand how any official can determine how much an Englishman and his family spend here.

The great lack in our tourist drive seems to be in respect of advertising. Anybody who has been abroad, especially on the Continent, must be ashamed of the skimpy nature of our advertisements there. Many of the European countries, particularly Switzerland, Denmark, France and Germany, seem to be able to afford splash advertisements which catch the eye, but you have to look for an Irish one. I know money is the important factor in this, but if we attach so much importance to tourism, we should be prepared to spend more, if that is necessary, to get the right type of advertisement. Maybe the money is spent in the wrong direction—I do not know. I can only judge from the type of advertisement one sees in the railway stations and other places abroad. Therefore, especially as far as Britain is concerned, we should do much more in the way of advertising. I must say I have noticed an improvement in the British newspapers in that respect, particularly the Sunday newspapers. What effect that will have we shall not know for quite some time.

While the most valuable aspects to us of travelling holidays are the number of foreign tourists we can attract, I suggest we could make a much greater effort, at the same time, to induce our own people to spend their holidays in Ireland. I admit that it is a very good thing that our people should travel abroad, but many who do so might be induced to see their own country first. I know there are many people here who have been in France, Spain, Germany and throughout the continent of Europe who have never seen Killarney, who have never been to Galway or to Connemara. They do not know the beauty or the attraction of Donegal or, as the Minister mentioned, the West coast generally.

We had a slogan for stamp franking in this country once: "See Ireland first", but now we seem to have lost the idea of inducing our people to see their own country. That, admittedly, would not do anything to improve our balance of payments position, but I suggest it would be of tremendous importance and assistance to the hoteliers throughout the country who have undoubtedly very lean periods in the course of a year. The Minister suggests that the peak period for holidays here is July and August, and if we could induce our own people to take their vacation in June or September, we would be doing quite a lot for the owners of hotels, guest houses and ordinary boarding houses. It would enable these people to effect the improvements which are so badly needed to our hotels.

I am glad the Minister has come to the House asking for more money for the development of our tourist resorts. I know some resorts which have been developed in recent years and which are, as a result, most attractive. However, it does not seem that the grants available for such development have been taken up in any big way. I can remember a complaint in this House two or three years ago that the local authorities did not avail of grants for the development of tourist resorts. It is desirable they should be encouraged by both Bord Fáilte and the Minister to do so. I know how difficult it is to negotiate the sale of land and to make other arrangements necessary before embarking on any development work of that kind, but I expect that as time goes on, the idea of this type of development will become more feasible in many of our seaside resorts. In conclusion, I would emphasise that we do not oppose this Supplementary Estimate; on the contrary, we welcome it. May I again ask that the Minister give the public some idea as to how he and Bord Fáilte estimate the income from tourism?

Mr. Dolan

Ba mhaith liom cupla focal a rá ar an Meastachán seo. Any money we spend on tourism is well spent. Some years back, people looked in a rather sceptical way at tourism, at the time of the foundation of An Tóstal, and more or less predicted that it would be useless, but the years have proved tourism to be something which is definitely useful in helping our economy.

There is a vast potential pool of tourists among our exiles abroad. There are many areas in the country where the old homesteads have fallen into decay, but the people who left them are living to-day in foreign lands, particularly in Australia and America. I feel quite sure that if the advances which we have made here and the development that has taken place were brought home to those people—the excellent hotel accommodation, the fine roads and the sunny seaside resorts —there would be a great influx here of such tourists, our own kith and kin. Perhaps there is not sufficient publicity and those people are unaware of the excellent amenities and facilities we have here. Anything and everything that can be done to bring these facts home to these people should be undertaken, even at Government level.

On the other hand, I would not be inclined to suggest that we should fall over each other in trying to cater for the foreign tourist. We should not, for instance, wipe out some of our landscape or our individual way of life, which is, after all, the outstanding attraction for any tourist. The Irish language and the signs put up in that language are some of the things which foreign tourists value most. They like to see something different, something they will remember later on. Accordingly, I suggest that in all guest houses and hotels, there should be available ample supplies of greeting cards printed in Irish, as well as a supply of craft products—mementoes which they can take home and enjoy during the winter months. I would insist on our inscribing them with the "Déanta in Éirinn" sign.

More co-operation is necessary, too, between the Twenty-Six and the Six Countries. There should be much freer travel across the Border so that all citizens of this island can enjoy unhampered holidays throughout the length and breadth of the country. One complaint I would stress is the multiplicity of signs along roadsides put up by local development committees. In many cases, these are objectionable, particularly since, instead of helping the motorist, they tend to distract his attention from the road. That is something which should be controlled by a central body.

Quite a number of our ancient historical monuments are not signposted. The archaeologist or the tourist with a flair for that type of thing very often passes along the country road without knowing anything about these places and monuments. A fund of information should be built up. Those in charge of these monuments of historic interest, in co-operation with the local authority, should see that, as far as possible, they are properly signposted so that the tourist can visit them. It is very important that if Bord Fáilte know about organised groups coming here from abroad, they should arrange, before the visitors arrive, to supply them with up-to-date brochures giving information on matters of historic interest. That would make their tours more interesting.

People who promote tours abroad for the All-Ireland Finals and other occasions and people who live in foreign countries should be given every encouragement to continue with that very praiseworthy effort. The more people we can get here, concentrating especially on our own kith and kin, the better it is, not only for our country but also for tourism. People who come here from abroad will thus be able to see for themselves the advances we have made in this country since we attained our freedom.

Mr. Donegan

Extra money is being voted for three purposes, including Cork Airport and holiday accommodation. I suppose the position is that, having decided to put the airport in Cork— and the decision was necessary—we must face the fact that there will be additional expenditure. There is not very much I wish to say on this aspect except to wish the Airport project well.

I should like to say a word on the question of hotel accommodation. The Minister mentioned two ways of helping hoteliers to provide extra bedrooms. One way is the funding of loans got from some agency such as the Industrial Credit Company or the banks, paying the interest; the other is the free cash grant. I have been always attracted by this business of funding loans, paying the interest charge on loans when large capital expenditures are necessary. If a person has a good balance sheet and can get the accommodation, as he surely will if he shows profits, then the Government can do even better by funding these loans instead of giving cash grants. I think the five year period mentioned by the Minister is too short. If the interest were paid over a longer period, say, 16 years, we might get an even greater capital investment, without having to produce from the capital side of our Budget moneys directly for the job ourselves. I am very much attracted by this idea of interest and interest funding. I think it is a good departure.

Cash grants are also very good. One is quite restricted in what one can do when confined to the amount of money the Minister can get from his Cabinet. He has to get a Cabinet decision so that the money will be expended in the financial year. It would be much easier to get a sum that would fund loans and spend money that way than to give cash grants. It means that some other outside financial institutions have also got their finger in the pie. It means that they will put the hard analytical eye on the ordinary financing of the project and I think the idea of funding interest is a better one than free grants. That is not to say that there should not be free grants but the other method is the better method.

If we provide bedrooms, as the Minister says we should, to the extent of 3,000 or 4,000 extra by the end of the year, we have got to fill them on the maximum number of nights per year. There is the big holiday period of An Tóstal earlier in the year and there are group holidays and sporting holidays. We must face the fact that An Tóstal was a failure. That means that, when we decide to encourage people to come here at any time other than July and August, we have got to do it pretty carefully. We have to realise that there are things which will not succeed and things which will succeed, that there are things which are quite limited and things which are not.

The failure of An Tóstal points to the fact that in a general way all over the country, the creation of small sporting events and the institution of cultural activities at that time of the year did not do the trick. I believe that in a rather restricted way, there is more of an opportunity to fill hotel beds by sporting holidays at times of the year when otherwise they might be empty than by any other method.

Hunting here is very popular, as we have seen, with American and English people. It would be even more popular still if we could provide some subvention in relation to horses for hire. We could then get people over here who want to hunt and who will pay generously for the privilege. It appears that Ireland is still the best place in which to get that sort of activity.

We have unlimited opportunities of attracting people here to fish. The House is well aware of what happened as a result of the activities of the Inland Fisheries Trust. Coarse fishing has filled the small hotels and guest houses in the county which the Minister and the Leader of the Opposition represent. It was the Leader of the Opposition who instituted the Inland Fisheries Trust. While we ourselves would not go out to fish for pike in one of these lakes, there are literally thousands of industrial workers in England who want to do that and pay for the privilege.

Mr. Dillon

I caught many a good pike in my day, and perch as well.

Mr. Donegan

There is an opportunity there. I heard a lot of people make the case that the same holds good for shooting. That is not so. Even if you were in Kerry, where there is a large snipe population, a relatively small number of men with guns shooting an area for a week could wipe out the sport. That is one matter which is restricted. It might appear to somebody who was not involved in the matter that it is not restricted. It does not hold out the same opportunity as fishing as a means of attracting people in months other than July and August.

The Minister also mentioned extra money for amenities at seaside resorts. I know of one such amenity, a swimming pool at Blackrock, County Louth. Through the good offices of Bord Fáilte and a grant from the Department of Local Government, this pool is being built with very little recourse to the county rates. This is a resort where the tide goes out about three miles. All one had was a place in which children could paddle and one had to walk several hundred yards before one could swim. The building of a swimming pool there is a very sound way of improving the tourist potential of the area.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.