Resolution No. 6—Customs and Excise. - Tobacco. – Dáil Éireann (17th Dáil) – Tuesday, 10 Apr 1962

Resolution No. 6—Customs and Excise. - Tobacco.

Dr. Ryan

I move:

(1) That the duty of customs on tobacco imposed by section 20 of the Finance Act, 1932 (No. 20 of 1932), shall, as on and from the 11th day of April, 1962, be charged, levied and paid at the several rates specified in Part I of the Schedule to this Resolution in lieu of the several rates at which the said duty is now chargeable by virtue of section 14 of the Finance Act, 1961 (No. 23 of 1961).

(2) That the duty of excise on tobacco imposed by section 19 of the Finance Act, 1934 (No. 31 of 1934), shall, as on and from the 11th day of April, 1962, be charged, levied and paid at the several rates specified in Part II of the Schedule to this Resolution in lieu of the several rates at which the said duty is now chargeable by virtue of section 14 of the Finance Act, 1961.

(3) That the rebate on hard pressed tobacco mentioned in subsection (2) of section 17 of the Finance Act, 1940 (No. 14 of 1940), shall, in respect of any such tobacco sold and sent out for use within the State by any licensed manufacturer on or after the 11th day of April, 1962, be at the rate of sixteen shillings and fivepence per pound.

(4) That the rebates on unmanufactured tobacco mentioned in subsection (3) of section 20 of the Finance Act, 1932 (No. 20 of 1932), and subsection (5) of section 19 of the Finance Act, 1934 (No. 31 of 1934), shall not be payable in respect of any unmanufactured tobacco received by a licensed manufacturer of tobacco on or after the 11th day of April, 1962.

(5) That every licensed manufacturer of tobacco shall, on and after the 11th day of April, 1962, be entitled to receive a rebate as follows in respect of unmanufactured tobacco received by him upon which the duty of customs imposed by section 20 of the Finance Act, 1932, or the duty of excise imposed by section 19 of the Finance Act, 1934, has been paid:—

	Rate of Rebate
Where the quantity received in any year commencing on the 11th day of April—
does not exceed 50,000 lbs.	1s. 6d. per lb. for each lb. thereof.
exceeds 50,000 lbs.	1s. 6d. per lb. for each of the first 50,000 lbs.

(6) It is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).

SCHEDULE.

DUTIES ON TOBACCO.

PART I.

Customs.

		£	s.	d.
Unmanufactured:—
if stripped or stemmed:—
containing 10 lbs, or more of moisture in every 100 lbs. weight thereof	the lb.	2	13	2
containing less than 10 lbs. of moisture in every 100 lbs. weight thereof	,,	2	19	1
if unstripped or unstemmed:—
containing 10 lbs. or more of moisture in every 100 lbs. weight thereof	,,	2	13	1½
containing less than 10 lbs. of moisture in every 100 lbs. weight thereof	,,	2	19	0½

		Full	Preferential
		£	s.	d.	£	s.	d.
Manufactured:—
cigars	the lb.	3	7	6	2	16	3
cigarettes	,,	3	5	6	2	14	7
Cavendish or Negrohead	,,	3	7	0	2	15	10
Cavendish or Negrohead manufactured in bond	,,	3	6	6	2	15	5
other manufactured tobacco	the lb.	3	5	0	2	14	2
snuff containing more than 13 lbs. of moisture in every 100 lbs. weight thereof	,,	3	4	6	2	13	9
snuff not containing more than 13 lbs. of moisture in every 100 lbs. weight thereof	,,	3	7	0	2	15	10

PART II.

Excise.

		£	s.	d.
Unmanufactured:—
containing 10 lbs. or more of moisture in every 100 lbs. weight thereof	the lb.	2	12	0½
containing less than 10 lbs. of moisture in every 100 lbs. weight thereof	,,	2	17	10
Manufactured:—
Cavendish or Negrohead manufactured in bond	,,	2	14	0½

Mr. M.P. Murphy

Would the Minister state the existing rate of duty on an ounce of plug tobacco, an ounce of loose tobacco, a packet of 20 cigarettes of the 3/4d. variety and of the 2/10d. variety?

Dr. Ryan

I have not got the figures for cigarettes. The rate of duty on all tobacco is £2 9s. 7½d. per lb. The content of 20 cigarettes and the content of an ounce of tobacco would be different. I have not got that figure with me. I can tell the Deputy later.

Mr. Sweetman

What is the existing duty on 20 cigarettes?

Dr. Ryan

2/3d. on the packet of 20.

Mr. M.P. Murphy

What is the duty on an ounce of plug tobacco and loose tobacco?

Dr. Ryan

An ounce of tobacco is not the same weight as 20 cigarettes. I cannot give it at the moment.

Mr. S. Dunne

It seems to me from the explanatory memorandum handed to us that this increase on tobacco will yield £1,780,000. The Minister is being sufficiently magnanimous as to give £1,000,000 to the social welfare group, including a miserable 2/6 to the old age pensioners, but what is to be done with the other three-quarters of a million pounds, before we vote on this Resolution?

Dr. Ryan

The farmers.

Mr. M.P. Murphy

What is the man who now buys two ounces of tobacco paying to the State at present?

Mr. S. Dunne

How much, in figures?

Mr. M.P. Murphy

What is loose tobacco? What is the existing rate of duty on tobacco? The Minister is avoiding answering. Surely his calculator beside him could tell him.

Mr. McQuillan

I should be quite clear in my own mind in regard to this Resolution—and every other Resolution that comes before the House—that its nature was not known to any member of the public prior to five minutes before the Minister began to read out his Budget statement in the House. On the question of the imposition of a tax such as we have in this Resolution—on tobacco—the Government's intention to impose such a tax should not be known to anyone——

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot allow the Deputy to raise the matter in this fashion.

Mr. McQuillan

It is very important.

An Ceann Comhairle

It may be important but it does not arise on this Resolution. If the Deputy wishes to raise it, he will have to take another course. He may not raise it on this Resolution.

Mr. M.P. Murphy

Can I get an answer to my question?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is another matter. I cannot answer all questions. Deputy McQuillan's matter may not be raised on this Resolution.

Mr. McQuillan

I sought immediately after the Minister's statement——

Mr. MacEntee

Chair.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has no authority over the Government's decisions.

Mr. McQuillan

I sought to find out from the Taoiseach whether or not he is satisfied that there was no leakage of information in regard to the Budget proposals, and I have not got any answer to that. Surely I am entitled——

An Ceann Comhairle

It may not be raised on this Resolution. I am ruling that quite definitely.

Mr. Sweetman

On a point of order, surely the Deputy is entitled to say that he does not propose to vote for the Resolution because the contents of it were disclosed to people not members of the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

I did not stop the Deputy from saying that.

Mr. Sweetman

He may say it so.

Mr. MacEntee

He is trying to find excuses for stopping the old age pensioners from getting it. He wants it but he will not pay for it. Is that not the point?

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Sweetman

The Minister had £8,000,000, if he wanted it.

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot allow Deputy McQuillan to raise the action or inaction of the Minister in respect of the publication or non-publication or dissemination of information on this Resolution.

Mr. McQuillan

You, Sir, do not know what I am going to say until I say it. May I answer the interruption by the Tánaiste which was to the effect that Deputies were attempting to prevent the old age pensioners from getting their increase by not voting for the increased duty on tobacco. I want to make it quite clear that if that information was made available to people outside the House before 4 o'clock, they are in a position——

An Ceann Comhairle

I shall not allow the Deputy to discuss that. He will speak to the Resolution or resume his seat.

The Taoiseach

He does not mind being expelled now. He wants to be expelled on this Resolution.

Mr. J. Lynch

He wants to avoid voting against it.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will resume his seat or speak on the Resolution.

Mr. McQuillan

I presume you will allow me to speak on the Resolution.

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes, and only on the Resolution.

Mr. McQuillan

I should like to make my position clear on this Resolution. Irrespective of the question of a proper increase or otherwise for the old age pensioners, I feel that it is the duty of the Government in every possible way to restrict the consumption of tobacco. So far as the Minister for Health is concerned, that job is being done through the Budget, when he should have the decency to do it through the Department of Health, in order to discourage the public from smoking, and on that basis——

Mr. MacEntee

Good old Fascist.

Mr. McQuillan

——I believe it would be wrong for me to vote against any——

Mr. J. Lynch

I knew he would find some excuse.

Mr. McQuillan

I intend to vote for the Resolution increasing the price of tobacco. I make no bones about it.

Mr. S. Dunne

There was a sigh of relief.

Mr. J. Lynch

We knew that before the Budget came in.

Mr. M.P. Murphy

Is it not possible to get an answer to my question?

Dr. Browne

Is it possible to get an answer to the question as to whether or not this information was made available——

An Ceann Comhairle

I ruled that out and I shall not allow it to be discussed on this Resolution.

Mr. Corish

Might I ask the Taoiseach if he would say whether or not there were people outside the Dáil, or outside the immediate staff of the Minister for Finance, who had the Budget proposals available to them before they were made public by the Minister? Is that not a simple question?

Dr. Browne

You, Sir, suggested that we should adopt another course and we propose to take it, but we should like at this stage to know from the Taoiseach whether or not this information was disclosed to people other than Deputies prior to 4 o'clock.

Mr. Moran

The Deputy would like to think it was.

Mr. Sweetman

The Minister for Lands says it was. We know now.

Mr. Dillon

I want to say that we shall vote against this Resolution. We are not depending on Deputies Sherwin, Sheridan and Leneghan.

Mr. Blaney

You are quite safe now.

Mr. Dillon

Only for them, you would be out on your neck. When we walked into the Division Lobby, we did not know whether they would go to the right or the left——

Mr. Blaney

You were hoping.

Mr. Sweetman

They will go the way of Cowan and Cogan.

Mr. Dillon

You remember the busted flush. You are down now to three, and you will shortly be dependent on two pairs. The Taoiseach can tell you the only hand which that beats, and when you come to a pair of twos get ready to go. We are going to vote against this Resolution.

Mr. Blaney

You are quite safe.

Mr. Coogan

Even Singer let you down, too.

Mr. Dillon

We are going to vote against this Resolution to express our entire disapprobation of the means chosen by the Government to raise the funds necessary to improve pensions and provide the relief to farmers. It seems to us fantastic that out of a Budget of £162 million all the vaunted promises of this administration to effect economies and to save money cannot be invoked in part at least to meet the extra cost of the situation that they seek to relieve and for which they are primarily responsible. It is they who have made the old age pensioners and the farmers——

Donnchadh Ó Briain

A "bob" a gallon.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Dillon is on his feet. Nothing else is relevant in the discussion except the duty on tobacco.

Mr. Dillon

I thought the Government Party's equanimity would begin to prick. I notice it is cracking a little. They are responsible——

Donnchadh Ó Briain

For the "bob" a gallon.

Mr. Dillon

——for the conditions to which the farmers of this country have been brought. They are responsible for the conditions that brought the farmers of this country on to the roads and the streets to parade in the dilemma into which they have been forced by the Fianna Fáil Government.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Labhair as Gaeilge anois.

Mr. Dillon

I sympathise with Deputy Ó Briain.

Donnchadh Ó Briain

I do not want your sympathy.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Labhair as Gaeilge anois.

Mr. Dillon

We have to remind the Deputy of his responsibilities even if it causes him profound dismay as it appears to do. We will vote against the Resolution because we disapprove of the general structure of this Budget. Ordinarily, our views of the general structure of the Budget would be reserved for the final tax resolution which falls to be debated tomorrow and the following day and the division on which we do not contemplate taking until after Easter. Pending our Vote on that, we propose to vote on this and the other Resolutions.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Sherwin

I did not intend to speak but as my name was mentioned I will defend my actions.

An Ceann Comhairle

On Resolution No. 6.

Mr. Sherwin

I am supporting this Resolution and the other Resolutions because, to begin with, I decided to vote for a Government and there would be no sense in my voting against the Resolution.

Mr. Coogan

You would not like to go out.

Mr. Sherwin

I am one of the few who has least to worry about. I accept that if we give we must get. When I voted for the Judges' increases, I went into the bar and several people called me over and asked me to have a drink. They were members of the Opposition. They said: "Do not mind us blowing our coal. We have to do it."

Mr. O'Sullivan

On a point of order. Would the House permit Deputy Sherwin to conclude and say he was invited by a Parliamentary Secretary——

Mr. Sherwin

I am supporting the motion because, as I said, you must get to give and I am not convinced——

Mr. Coogan

What did they give you?

Mr. Sherwin

You can rest assured that I have not got a butt from anyone. I neither drink nor smoke. On the Resolution, I take the view that if you give, you must take. In every Budget statement, you would have the same even if the Opposition were in power. I have never yet heard of an Opposition giving three cheers for a Government Budget. It cannot be done. It is just blowing their coal because they have got to do it.

Mr. Coughlan

He was one of the three cheers.

Mr. M.P. Murphy

At the outset, I asked the Minister a simple question. I did not get an answer to that question and I want to make it quite clear to the country, through the Minister's answer, what the people are paying in tobacco tax already and on cigarettes. We are putting on 2d. extra. We are asking the cigarette smokers of this country to pay a tax of ? on every 20 cigarettes they buy. Who are the cigarette smokers? The vast majority of them are in the lower income group. I want to hear the Minister's reply. The Minister replied to the question in so far as cigarettes are concerned but he did not reply to the question in regard to tobacco. What is the actual tax at the present time on hard pressed and loose tobacco? Before this Resolution is implemented, if it will be implemented, I want a simple answer to that question. Surely the Minister or his advisers know the answer?

Tá

Aiken, Frank.
Allen, Lorcan.
Bartley, Gerald.
Blaney, Neil T.
Boland, Kevin.
Booth, Lionel.
Brady, Philip A.
Brady, Seán.
Brennan, Joseph.
Brennan, Paudge.
Breslin, Cormac.
Briscoe, Robert.
Browne, Noel C.
Burke, Patrick J.
Calleary, Phelim A.
Carter, Frank.
Carty, Michael.
Childers, Erskine.
Gallagher, James.
Galvin, John.
Geoghegan, John.
Gibbons, James M.
Gilbride, Eugene.
Gogan, Richard P.
Haughey, Charles.
Hillery, Patrick.
Hilliard, Michael.
Kennedy, Michael J.
Kitt, Michael F.
Lalor, Patrick J.
Lemass, Noel T.
Lemass, Seán.
Leneghan, Joseph R.
Lenihan, Brian.
Lynch, Celia.
Lynch, Jack.
MacCarthy, Seán.
Clohessy, Patrick.
Colley, George.
Collins, James J.
Corry, Martin J.
Cotter, Edward.
Crinion, Brendan.
Crowley, Honor M.
Cummins, Patrick J.
Cunningham, Liam.
Davern, Mick.
de Valera, Vivion.
Dolan, Séamus.
Dooley, Patrick.
Egan, Kieran P.
Egan, Nicholas.
Fanning, John.
Faulkner, Padraig.
Flanagan, Seán.
McEllistrim, Thomas.
MacEntee, Seán.
McQuillan, John.
Meaney, Con.
Medlar, Martin.
Millar, Anthony G.
Moher, John W.
Mooney, Patrick.
Moran, Michael.
Ó Briain, Donnchadh.
Ó Ceallaigh, Seán.
O'Connor, Timothy.
O'Malley, Donogh.
Ormonde, John.
Ryan, James.
Sheridan, Joseph.
Sherwin, Frank.
Smith, Patrick.
Timmons, Eugene.

Níl

Barrett, Stephen D.
Barron, Joseph.
Barry, Anthony.
Barry, Richard.
Belton, Jack.
Blowick, Joseph.
Browne, Michael.
Burke, James J.
Burton, Philip.
Byrne, Patrick.
Carroll, Jim.
Casey, Seán.
Clinton, Mark A.
Collins, Seán.
Connor, Patrick.
Coogan, Fintan.
Corish, Brendan.
Cosgrave, Liam.
Costello, Declan D.
Costello, John A.
Coughlan, Stephen.
Crotty, Patrick J.
Desmond, Dan.
Dillon, James M.
Dockrell, Henry P.
Dockrell, Maurice E.
Donegan, Patrick S.
Donnellan, Michael.
Dunne, Seán.
Dunne, Thomas.
Esmonde, Sir Anthony C.
Everett, James.
Farrelly, Denis.
Flanagan, Oliver J.
Gilhawley, Eugene.
Governey, Desmond.
Harte, Patrick D.
Hogan, Patrick (South Tipperary).
Hogan, O'Higgins, Brigid.
Jones, Denis F.
Kenny, Henry.
Kyne, Thomas A.
Lynch, Thaddeus.
McAuliffe, Patrick.
MacEoin, Seán.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McLaughlin, Joseph.
Mullen, Michael.
Murphy, Michael P.
Murphy, William.
Norton, William.
O'Donnell, Patrick.
O'Donnell, Thomas G.
O'Higgins, Michael J.
O'Higgins, Thomas F.K.
O'Keeffe, James.
O'Reilly, Patrick.
O'Sullivan, Denis J.
Pattison, Séamus.
Reynolds, Patrick J.
Rooney, Eamonn.
Ryan, Richie.
Spring, Dan.
Sweetman, Gerard.
Tierney, Patrick.
Treacy, Seán.
Tully, James.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies J. Brennan and Geoghegan; Níl: Deputies O'Sullivan and Tully.

Resolution declared carried.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Tuesday, 10 Apr 1962

Resolution No. 6—Customs and Excise. - Tobacco.

Tá

Níl

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 10 Apr 1962