Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - CIE Branch Lines. – Dáil Éireann (17th Dáil) – Tuesday, 3 Jul 1962

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he will give in respect of each of the years 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961 and 1962 to date (a) returns of the expenses involved in the running of the following branch lines: Mountmellick-Portlaoise, Clara-Banagher, Birr-Roscrea, Edenderry - Enfield, Portlaoise - Kilkenny, Streamstown-Clara, and Athy-Ballylinan, (b) the amount of revenue from each branch, (c) the number of persons employed on each of these branches, and (d) the reason why the Company proposes the permanent closing of each one.

38.

Dr. Browne

andMr. McQuillan asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he is satisfied that there is no alternative but to carry through the very widespread close-down of railway services as announced by the Chairman of CIE.

Mr. Childers

I propose with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to take Questions Nos. 37 and 38 together.

The Oireachtas has delegated to CIE under the Transport Act, 1958 sole responsibility for determining whether particular railway services are economic and has vested in CIE full discretion and sole authority to continue services it deems to be uneconomic and likely to remain so. I would, however, remind the Deputies that no decision has yet been taken to close any of the lines referred to and that the Chairman of the Board has announced that before any decision is come to, CIE will be glad to consider representations from interested parties.

Mr. Corish

Under the legislation referred to by the Minister, would he say whether or not it would be possible for the Board of CIE to scrap all the railways without consultation with him or without reference to the Government?

Mr. Childers

In the light of the statement made by the then Minister for Industry and Commerce when the 1958 Act was passed, I do not think it could be taken that CIE could take that action.

Mr. Corish

Has the Minister not, in effect, said that CIE themselves could determine what railways were uneconomic and therefore is it not possible for them to close down the entire railway network of the country?

Mr. Childers

In accordance with the traditions of this House and the statement made on the Second Reading during the general examination of the 1958 Act, that would be going ultra vires, even though the words of the Act might imply that CIE could do so.

Mr. Corish

The Taoiseach has not clarified the statement.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Could we have from the Minister a clear indication of Government policy in respect of the closing down of these branch lines? May I ask if the Government are in favour of closing down these branch lines? If not, would the Minister let us know what is the Government's policy in relation to the future of Irish railways?

Mr. Childers

The Deputy will have an opportunity of discussing that matter on the Estimate for the Department.

Mr. Corish

The railways might be closed down by then.

Mr. Childers

That is not the case.

Mr. T. Lynch

The Minister has just said the railways could not be closed down in view of the fact that a statement had been made by the former Minister for Industry and Commerce that made it impossible for C.I.E. to close down the railways. Would the Minister tell us when that statement was made?

Mr. Childers

The Deputy must recall the circumstances of the debate. The 1958 Act was based effectively on the report of the committee of inquiry into internal transport. I myself have many times since indicated that the statements made in that committee report proved valid and that their predictions proved remarkably accurate. Their report definitely suggested the eventual outline of an arterial railway system and indeed published in the report a map of what they considered the system eventually should be.

Mr. T. Lynch

I remember the statement made by the Minister for Industry and Commerce. Is the Minister aware that the statement made when the 1958 Act was going through was that there would be no railways torn up without full consultation with the people in the areas concerned and that that undertaking was not carried out?

Mr. Childers

It has nothing to do with this Question.

Mr. T. Lynch

It has everything to do with it and with the Minister's answer. He is running out on his word, as the Minister for Industry and Commerce ran out on his word.

Mr. Corish

Would the Minister for Transport and Power clarify this? Is it not possible, under the legislation to which he has referred and despite what may have happened in between, for the Board of CIE to do away with all the lines?

Mr. Childers

That is a reductio ad absurdum. The reports of CIE have to be presented to the Oireachtas and the Oireachtas has been and will be providing money for the development of the railway system. The Deputy must use commonsense. There are ample precedents. A great number of Acts have been passed in this House where in regard to the strict letter of the law, there have been policy trends clearly indicated by the Minister of the day.

Mr. T. Lynch

They could be taken up next Monday morning before anybody would know anything about it.

Mr. McQuillan

Could the Minister give any specific instance where as a result of representations or consultations in the past between CIE and interested groups in regard to a proposal to close a railway line, such representations had any effect in preventing the closing of the line? In view of the situation in the past is it not quite apparent that the statement made by the Chairman of CIE means that, irrespective of whatever representations or consultations may take place, his mind is made up, unless the Minister makes time available in this House for Deputies to reconsider the mandate they gave that CIE become a paying concern by 1964? Does the Minister propose to make time available for a discussion on the necessity for revising that legislation?

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 3 Jul 1962