andMr. Mullen asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he is aware that CIE are at present expending very large sums on the importation of bus bodies; and that they propose to import a further 200 to 300 double decker buses ready built; and whether this action on the part of a semi-State body is in accordance with the Government's policy of a buy Irish campaign.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Importation of Bus Bodies.
16.
I am aware that CIE are engaged in the construction of 255 new type single deck buses from imported completely knocked down parts. These were ordered a considerable time ago and a proportion of the order has already been delivered. As I have already explained to the Dáil, the decision to make the bus bodies in a completely knocked down condition is a departure from previous practice but this is mainly as regards the main framing of the bus body and the introduction of fibre glass in the design; the outer panelling and inner trimming and finishing of the bodies will be carried out by CIE as before. I am informed that this is the result of world-wide changes in the techniques of bus design and manufacture and will enable CIE to incorporate up-to-date design and methods without being involved in prohibitive re-tooling costs. There is, of course, no question of importing double-deck buses but CIE contemplate commencing a programme of building 120 double-deck buses from imported completely knocked down parts when the present programme for single-deck buses is completed in about 18 months' time.
Is it not a fact that when the Minister refers to the importation of completely knocked down bus bodies, he is talking in effect about the importation of buses as such? What it means is that, whereas heretofore the workers at Spa Road, Inchicore, made buses from the ground up out of sheet steel, and employment was provided for 400 men, now we are exporting money to the tune of, in the first instance, £1,500,000, to England and possibly double that in respect of the double-deck buses in prospect, with the inevitable result of redundancy for a large number of men who have spent all their lives working in this industry and whose families were there before them. In the light of that and all that has gone on about the 15 per cent and the intensive propaganda to buy Irish, is it not ironic, to say the least of it, that the Government should be spending £1,500,000 on imports from England——
The Deputy is making a speech.
——and disemploying our own people.
He is talking about the chassis factory which they closed down.
There is no redundancy taking place in the Spa Road works as a result of this changeover at the present time, none whatsoever.
How can it possibly take place when the importation has not happened yet? But is it not a fact the men have been informed that there will be redundancy?
There is no question of any redundancy for the present and there is plenty of work there to be done. In further reply to the Deputy, owing to the change in the technique of making buses, there is a change in the character of the importation of parts. When the Deputy referred to £1,500,000, I do not know to what he was referring, but the difference in the kind of materials that are imported now and the kind of materials that will be imported because of this inevitable change in the manufacturing of the buses is negligible and could not possibly have a bearing on the balance of payments or anything of that kind.
But it has a bearing on the balance of employment.
Can the Minister say clearly and distinctly what effect this importation of 250 buses will have on the employment of the men working at Spa Road, in the future?
There is no such thing as buses being imported and I notice that in this question apparently the rumour is sought to be spread that complete buses are to be imported. CIE are now adopting roughly the same method of constructing buses here as is adopted by all the other motor car assembly firms. It is under the same restriction from the Minister for Industry and Commerce in regard to quotas and licences. It is merely adopting the best system in conformity with modern methods and there will be no redundancy for the present.
We may not agree as to the description of what is being imported but can the Minister assure this House that what is to be imported will not have effect on the employment of the men at Spa Road?
I have already informed the Deputy that for the present there will be no effect on employment.
For the present.
Over 100 men have been warned they will lose their employment.
The Minister will recall a discussion in this House on 17th June this year where he said he anticipated there would be redundancy.
Not for the present but there will be redundancy later.
Will the Minister say whether or not there have been talks with the trade union with a view to offering employment within the same industry——
I have replied to all these questions before and the Deputy knows the position. I made it perfectly clear that in relation to the long-term changes that were to take place at Spa Road, and after the completion of a programme for manufacturing single-deck buses and of urgently needed maintenance work, of which the Deputy should be fully aware, there will be negotiations with the trade unions, inevitably, because there will be changes. As I told the Deputy, by that time plans for the retraining of workers, which could apply to the workers capable of retraining at Spa Road, will be in operation. We are awaiting the final decision of the Minister for Industry and Commerce. I also told the Deputy that in relation to any redundancy, there would be negotiations with the trade unions. There again that depends partly on any general redundancy arrangements or plans in relation to redundancy made by the Minister for Industry and Commerce. Having said that, I can say there will be no redundancy for 18 months.
The Minister said that six months ago. My simple question to him was whether there had been any negotiations with the trade unions in regard to giving alternative employment to these men.
I understand these matters are being discussed. It is not a matter of urgency because nobody is going to be now made redundant.
Does the Minister want the men to go to Birmingham to build buses?