Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 28 Apr 1966

Vol. 222 No. 5

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Difficulties of Farming Community.

62.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he is aware that dairy farmers in the creamery areas have been experiencing severe hardship in recent months owing to increasing costs of production, the uneconomic basic price of milk, a considerable fall in calf prices, the prevalence of contagious abortion and other diseases, the locking up of herds under the Bovine Tuberculosis Scheme, the steep rise in rates and the lack of adequate fodder and grass caused by inclement weather; and that a situation has now been reached where it is becoming almost impossible for many farmers to continue in business; and, if so, whether he proposes to take any steps to alleviate the position before the farmers concerned are forced to take drastic action.

63.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he is aware of the seriously depressed state of the entire farming community at the present time; and what he proposes to do about the matter as it is one of great urgency in view of the fall in income of all those engaged in all branches of farming in this country.

Mr. Haughey

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions No. 62 and 63 together.

I am fully aware that farmers have encountered special difficulties this spring due to the abnormal weather but I consider it is too early yet to assess what the outcome for the year as a whole is likely to be.

As intimated both by the Minister for Finance and myself in the course of the Budget debate, and as reiterated in the Government's statement of 26th April, should the income position of farmers deteriorate during the year, the Government will review the situation in the light of all the circumstances prevailing. Farming organisations are well aware of this undertaking and of my readiness at all times to work in close co-operation with them for the benefit of agriculture and I believe this is the most effective way of examining and seeking solutions for the problems confronting farmers.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

Arising from the Minister's most unsatisfactory reply to Question No. 62 in which I outlined six reasons for his taking action, he has now in his reply adverted to one reason, the recent bad weather. The present situation has arisen not merely because of the recent bad weather but because of a number of other factors.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the Deputy putting a question or making a speech?

Mr. T. O'Donnell

It is a very serious situation.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy is entitled to put supplementary questions to the Minister. He is not entitled to make a speech.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

Is the Minister aware that the time has gone for discussion and theoretical expression of views, that a situation has been reached now where action is demanded and that the Minister is not faced with just something he cannot yet assess? The situation is well known now. In fact, what the Minister is faced with is a situation which demands a rescue operation and is he prepared to take action?

Mr. Haughey

I am prepared to discuss any rescue operation with the organisation concerned.

Mr. Creed

Would the Minister state specifically now if he intends to introduce this year the two-tier price for milk and to increase the basic price of milk delivered to creameries? Further to his reply, is he aware that in some creameries of which I am aware —and I can furnish the Minister with returns of the creamery milk delivered to a creamery in the month of March, 1965—exactly the same butter fat content in March, 1966, fetched a penny a gallon less than in March, 1965 Is he prepared to take some action on this? As he is well aware, the whole agricultural industry is on the rocks at the present time.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Does the Minister not very clearly agree that the incomes of all sections of the community have gone up, and gone up steadily, while the income of the farmers has dropped, and dropped steadily?

Mr. Haughey

No.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Does the Minister consider that is a sound state for Irish agriculture to be in?

Mr. Creed

Surely the Minister——

Mr. Haughey

The Deputy has already asked a supplementary question. Wait a moment. Deputy Flanagan has suggested that farmers' income has dropped. It has not. Our projection for farmers' income this year is that it will increase by £5 million or £6 million— by about four or five per cent. That projection has been agreed with the economists of the farmers' organisations themselves.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Do not mind the economists. What about the practical farmers?

Mr. Haughey

I admit that projection was made before we had this very harsh spring. We are almost certain that that projection will have to be revised in the light of the very harsh spring weather we have had recently. As yet, it is far too early to say what the outturn for the whole year will be, but I admit it does not look as hopeful as it did when we made that projection with the farmers' organisations.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Does the Minister feel that the farmers are better off today than they were this time 12 months? Answer that one.

Mr. Haughey

There are various different ways of measuring this. First of all there is total farm income, global farm income as we call it——

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Take the tillage farmers and the dairy farmers.

Mr. Haughey

In regard to global farm income as I said, so far as we could accurately measure it, our projection was for an increase of £5 million or £6 million this year as distinct from £2 million or one per cent in 1965. Of course this is all governed by the weather and by yields and prices which we cannot accurately forecast.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Does a good Minister for Agriculture not consider whether the farmers are better off in the autumn than they were in the spring? Is that not how he measures his success? Is the Minister now satisfied that the farmers are better off than they were two years ago?

Mr. Haughey

I would say that if we had not had this——

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Do not mind the weather.

Mr. Haughey

——unprecedented bad weather this spring, farmers' income would be up this year. At present we cannot say what the outturn will be.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Question No. 64.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

The Minister said earlier that he was prepared to enter into discussions—is that agreed?

Mr. Haughey

The Deputy mentioned something about rescue operations. I said I am prepared at any moment to have discussions with farmers' organisations about the difficulties they are undergoing, and if there is any need for rescue operations as a result of inclement weather, I am prepared to discuss them.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

I am going to ask the Minister a straight question.

Mr. Haughey

That will be a relief.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

The Minister indicated in recent times that he was prepared to enter into discussions. About a fortnight ago he was prepared to enter discussions with the dairy farmers' organisation on ways and means of improving their incomes other than by increasing the price of milk. He said on Tuesday he was prepared to discuss the general income position of the dairy farmers. Now he says he is prepared to discuss rescue operations. The issue is simply this. Is the Minister prepared to discuss an increase in the price of milk?

(Interruptions.)

Mr. T. O'Donnell

The whole dairying industry is in jeopardy. Is the Minister prepared to discuss an increase in the price of milk?

(Interruptions.)

Deputies

Order.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

I want a straight answer to that question.

Mr. Haughey

The Deputy is play-acting. I know he is play-acting and there are three of his colleagues in this House who know he is play-acting.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

I object. The Minister is play-acting.

Deputies

Order. Chair.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

The Minister has brought about this situation by his inactivity. His only interest in Irish agriculture is in racehorse owners.

Mr. Haughey

The Deputy is being dishonest.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. T. O'Donnell

I protest.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy O'Donnell will resume his seat——

Mr. T. O'Donnell

I protest against the statement of the Minister.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

——or else he will leave the House.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

I have been four and a half years in this House and I have never infringed the rules. I protest against the Minister's attitude.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am asking Deputy O'Donnell to resume his seat.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. B. Lenihan

We do not want anarchy in this House.

Mr. L'Estrange

Your Party started it when they supported the Civil War and brothers waded through brothers' blood. The chickens are coming home to roost now.

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am asking Deputy O'Donnell to resume his seat or leave the House, or I will adjourn the House.

Mr. L'Estrange

Decent people have to come and parade in Dublin when they should be doing their work.

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am asking Deputy O'Donnell to obey the Chair or leave the House.

Mr. T. O'Donnell

I will leave the House.

Deputy T. O'Donnell withdrew.

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

If Deputy L'Estrange does not behave himself, I will ask him to leave the House.

Mr. Harte

May I ask the Minister——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I have called Question No. 64.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. K. Boland

He is under instructions to get thrown out. He was told to get thrown out.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

I cannot hear a word that is being said. This is the most important question on the Order Paper today.

Mr. Creed

Will the Minister answer——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are now on Questions Nos. 64 and 65.

Mr. Harte

Deputy O'Donnell who has just left the House is one of the most modest Deputies in this House and he has been grossly insulted by the Minister for Agriculture. The Minister should be made withdraw.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Harte will please restrain himself.

Mr. Harte

I wish to point out to the House the impertinence of the Minister for Agriculture.

Mr. Haughey

I should like to protest against the play-acting of the Fine Gael shilling a gallon Party.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Could we have a little peace and order so that we could deal with the most important question on the Order Paper dealing with the price of milk? I beg the Minister to be cool and very calm and please not to get excited.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Will the Deputy please resume his seat?

Mr. Haughey

May I answer Deputy Creed? Deputy Creed was present with me when I met a deputation which was very widely representative of the creamery milk suppliers from his own constituency. They expressed themselves as being satisfied with the price of milk.

Mr. Creed

I beg to differ from the the Minister. The deputation from my constituency met the Minister on a completely different matter altogether from the matter which has now brought the dairy farmers to the gates of Leinster House to be hurled into jail.