asked the Minister for Health if his attention has been drawn to a report indicating that Department of Health officials and the Irish Medical Association's representatives will meet within three weeks to discuss a new deal for the Republic's ambulance and accident services; and if this report is in fact correct, why was there no consultation in respect of this matter with the trade unions which represent the ambulance personnel concerned.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Ambulance and Accident Services.
25.
Thar cheann an Aire. The proposed discussion between my Department and representatives of the Irish Medical Association will be concerned with the organisation of the hospital accident service in the Dublin area. It will not be directly concerned with the ambulance service or its personnel.
I assume that, in future, when the Minister for Health is investigating the terms of appointment of doctors, he will consult first with the ambulance drivers to find out what they think about it, because it is about as silly as what the Minister is doing now, that is, consulting the doctors about ambulance drivers' conditions?
My information is that these proposals do not touch directly on the ambulance service or its personnel.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that a circular has been sent to all managers setting out new conditions which are to be laid down for ambulance drivers and that is supposed to have been done in consultation with the Medical Union? Will the Parliamentary Secretary find out from the Minister for Health whether this simply applies to the Dublin area or whether it applies to the whole country because the County Managers' Association assured me it applies to the whole country?
My information is the Medical Union have not been concerned in this report. The Irish Medical Association have submitted a report of a working party on the organisation and staffing of hospital accident services in Dublin. The association have requested a discussion on the services.
Surely the Parliamentary Secretary has seen the reports in the newspapers on this matter which clearly indicate that there was consultation between the Department of Health and the Irish Medical Association?
May I point out that Deputy James Tully referred to the Medical Union?
The Irish Medical Association or the Medical Union— one or the other.
There have been no consultations with the Medical Union.
With the Irish Medical Association?
Yes.
In relation to ambulance services?
In Dublin only.
I am asking why there was no consultation with the trade unions representing the drivers.
There is no reason why there should be consultation with the trade unions.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary be surprised to learn that representatives of the City and County Managers' Association told representatives of the trade union last week at a conference that they had a document from the Department of Health which contained proposals that emanated from the conference I have referred to and it affected the entire Twenty-Six Counties?
I have no such information.
Will the Parliamentary Secretary get the information and ensure that this matter is put right?
Certainly.
26.
asked the Minister for Health if he will take steps to ensure that the proposed system of training for ambulance personnel will be submitted to the trade unions which represent the staff concerned for consideration and decision before any training courses are established for ambulance personnel.
Plans for the proposed centralised system of training for ambulance personnel are being worked out by a training board which I have recently set up to organise and supervise the scheme.
As soon as the arrangements have been brought to a more advanced stage, I will consider the matter raised in the question.
The Parliamentary Secretary is obviously not aware that the City and County Managers' Association have proposals in hand which they received from his Department and of which they undertook to send copies to the unions concerned, and what we are looking for now is an assurance that there will be no training scheme put into operation without prior consultation with the trades union. We do not want the Medical Union or anybody else deciding these things.
Ambulance drivers are represented by a number of different unions. They have a joint committee under the chairmanship of Mr. Barry Desmond. This joint committee is at present negotiating with the county and city managers for better methods of training and recruitment.
You are telling us.
I am sure they will be consulted in relation to training.
It was having regard to those discussions that I put down this question. Deputy Tully represented his union, I represented my union and the Workers' Union of Ireland was represented at a conference last week at which we were told that this document had been passed——
You were given no such information.
He was, because——
My information is that a meeting was held between the two bodies a few days ago in which Deputy Tully and Deputy Mullen participated. Deputy Mullen asked for details of the proposed courses and stated that he was not willing to advise his members to participate until the details had first been stated.
We sent a letter to the Minister asking for a copy to be sent to us. We have not got the copy yet.
You will get a copy.
When the by-elections are over. It was published to ensure that people would vote your way.
Everything we do is supposed to be done for that purpose.
Will the Parliamentary Secretary assure this House that he will advise the City and County Managers' Association that no attempt will be made to start courses of training without consultation and agreement with the representatives of the ambulance drivers, as is the normal practice?
The Deputy will get the details and any other information he requires.
An opportunity of deciding on the details.