asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will immediately relax the means test for non-contributory old age and widows' pensions.
145.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Means Tests for Pensions.
144.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will take immediate steps to restore to all pensioners cuts made in their pensions on receipt of increases in their British benefits; and if he will ensure that this matter is dealt with as one of urgency in view of the poor circumstances of such pensioners.
I propose, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, to answer Questions Nos. 144 and 145 together. The items which constitute means for old age and widows' pension are laid down by law. It is not open to me to direct that the means test be relaxed or that any item be ignored in the calculation of a person's means.
In the case of an increase in a British pension, is it right that the money paid by the British Government to a person who is now residing in this country should be the cause of a decreased pension from the Irish Government? Surely the Minister must agree that there is a special case here for immediate review? Many such pensioners throughout the country have suffered as a result of this situation.
I have examined this matter very carefully. It is not just as simple as the Deputy says. British pensions have to be taken into the calculation of the means test. The whole pension must be considered. The law does not provide for ignoring any part of it. It would be a peculiar anomaly if I were to introduce legislation to ignore the recent increases and then continued to have the full pension of future pensioners taken into account. A very good case could be made for our own contributory pensioners, who do not get non-contributory pension, if we ignore the British contributory pensions for means test and refuse non-contributory pensions to our own people.
Many of the people concerned have been obliged to take whatever work was available to them in Britain because of adverse economic circumstances here. Would the Minister not agree that a special case can be made for these people and that some consideration should be given to them?
Where the amount of money they have got from Britain is less than the amount by which they have had their pensions reduced here, the Minister might be able to change that, possibly?
While the Irish Government have made reciprocal arrangements about increases in the British pension, instead of the recipients getting it, the Irish Government have intercepted this increase and cornered it for the Exchequer.
That is not correct, although it is frequently stated. The vast amount of the increase in the pensions has gone to the pensioners. If one examines the figures for this year, it will be found that we by no means saved the entire round, as the Deputy suggests.
On a former occasion, the Minister's predecessor said that the saving, to date, at that time, was in the neighbourhood of £227,000. That is not insubstantial.
I think the British estimate was £800,000.
The State got £285,000 as a result of the change.
I shall give the Deputy the figure.
There is a special case and it should be examined, particularly for migratory workers.