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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 9 Mar 1967

Vol. 227 No. 3

Committee on Finance. - Vote 28—Office of the Minister for Education.

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £26,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1967, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Education (including Institutions of Science and Art), for certain Miscellaneous Educational and Cultural Services and sundry Grants-in-Aid.

Supplementary Estimates are required in the case of the following Votes—Office of the Minister for Education, Primary Education, Secondary Education, Vocational Education and Vote for Universities and Colleges and Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies. The following are the factors which gave rise to the necessity for these Supplementary Estimates.

The additional sums required in respect of Vote 28 are for Subheads A 1— Salaries, Wages and Allowances; A 4— Expenses in connection with Commission on Higher Education; F 1—Publications in Irish; and G 8—Scientific Research Grants to Students.

In so far as Subhead A 1 is concerned, the excess arises from the implementation of the general agreement made at Conciliation Council Meetings in June and July, 1966, under the Civil Service Conciliation and Arbitration Scheme for payment as from 1st June, 1966 of certain increases not exceeding £1 per week to officers on salaries not exceeding £1,200 per annum. Provision for such increases could not be made at the time of the preparation of the original Estimate as the agreement was not negotiated until July, 1966.

It was also not possible to estimate with any degree of precision at the time of the preparation of the original Estimate the amount which would be required for subhead A 4—Expenses in connection with the Commission on Higher Education, and only a token provision of £10 was made. The actual sum required for the financial year 1966-67 is now estimated at £910. I may say that a Summary of the Report of the Commission was presented to me by the Commission on 24th February, 1967 and arrangements are being made to have it printed and published with all possible dispatch.

The excess in Subhead F 1 is occasioned by (1) an excess of £4,000 in subsection F 1 (i) owing to certain publication costs accruing due for payment earlier than anticipated and (2) to a special payment of £19,000 to a firm engaged full-time in the publication of books in Irish.

The other subhead in this Vote for which a supplementary sum is required is G 8—Scientific Research Grants to Students. This scheme has been in operation for many years and the grants payable under it are in the form of maintenance allowances to graduate students for training in research in science departments in Irish universities. To be eligible for a grant, a student must have secured at least second class honours, grade one, in his degree examination.

A decision was made in 1965 to extend the scheme in two important respects. In the first place the fields of research to which the scheme applied were extended to include engineering as well as pure science. Secondly, it was decided that the grants, which up to then had been tenable for one year only, should be renewable for a second year and a third year subject to satisfactory reports on the progress of the student's work. This decision was taken in the light of expert advice, which was that one year of research was no longer sufficient for the training of scientists either for industry or for the educational sector.

The underlying purpose in expanding the scheme was to stimulate research in the science and engineering departments of the universities. This is important in making university teaching posts attractive to scientists and engineers of high calibre. It also assists the university staffs to keep abreast of advances in their own fields and leads therefore to a strengthening of undergraduate teaching.

In the current academic year, that is, the year which began in October last, there are 45 students in receipt of grants awarded for the first time this year and 36 students who are now in their second year or third year of post-graduate work.

It was not possible to forecast accurately at the time of the preparation of the original Estimates the number of students who would qualify for new grants, or apply for renewal of their grants, as the revised arrangements had been only a short while in operation. It became clear during the course of the year, however, that an additional sum of £5,700 would be required.

Excesses in the Votes for Primary and Secondary Education are attributable to agreements reached at meetings of the Conciliation Councils under the Schemes of Conciliation and Arbitration for the three groups of teachers—national, secondary and vocational. The increases in salaries agreed upon were in line with those granted to civil servants with salaries not exceeding £1,200 per annum which I have already referred to in relation to the excess in Subhead A1 of Vote 28.

In the case of the Primary Education Vote, the additional cost of the increases in salaries and capitation grants for the period 1st June, 1966, to 31st March, 1967, is estimated to be £377,000. A further sum of £113,000 will, it is estimated, be required to meet the additional cost of salaries of an increased number of teachers resulting from the continuing improvement in school staffing conditions.

The excess in Subhead D of Vote 29 —Primary Education — arises partly from the effects of the increases in salaries already referred to and partly from a marginal underestimation in the first instance of the amount required for the subhead.

In relation to Vote No. 31 — Vocational Education — the educational schemes drawn up annually by vocational education committees are financed mainly from local rates and from State grants to the committees. The amount which may be contributed by the local rating authorities is limited, as a maximum, to the product of 24d per £1 of valuation. The balance of the current expenditure of vocational education committees is met for the most part from the State grant from Subhead A of this Vote.

In 1966-67 the amount provided in the subhead for State grants to the 38 vocational education committees was £3,091,100. This sum was made up of two elements, firstly, annual grants which are paid by the Department to all committees in proportion to the amount contributed from the local rates and, secondly, special grants which are paid by the Department to committees whose resources would not otherwise be sufficient to finance their approved schemes.

Due to the increased expenditure on salaries resulting from the agreement already referred to under the scheme of conciliation and arbitration for vocational teachers and to necessary additional expenditure on equipment and materials and extra teachers required urgently to cope with increased enrolments and wider courses of instruction, it has been found necessary to increase the total amount of the special grants for 1966-67 in the case of a number of vocational education committees. The extra amount is £110,000 and this is the sum now requested in the Supplementary Estimate.

I come now to the Vote for universities and colleges. A sum of £199,000 is being provided by way of ad interim grants to the university colleges in order to obviate the raising of fees in respect of the coming financial year. I stated in Seanad Éireann on the 9th of last month that I had given most earnest consideration to representations made to me in regard to university fees particularly in view of the imminence of the Report of the Commission on Higher Education. I came to the conclusion that it would be particularly inopportune for university tuition fees to be raised just now before the Government should have an opportunity of considering the recommendations in the Report.

Provision is also being made for an increase in the grant to the College of Surgeons from £8,000 to £16,000. The additional money is required to meet increased expenditure on salaries and equipment.

On the capital expenditure side, an additional £110,000 is being made available to University College Dublin to meet the balance of the expenditure on the science buildings at Belfield. It was originally anticipated that the final accounts would not be ready for presentation before the financial year 1967-68 and accordingly provision for final payments was not made in the Vote for the present financial year. The accounts are, however, being presented to the college during the present year and the necessary provision to meet them is, accordingly, being made in the Supplementary Estimate.

Capital expenditure had not been anticipated in the case of University College Galway during 1966-67. In fact, however, certain works had to be undertaken in connection with the heating arrangements of the quadrangle buildings and there are other capital costs also to be met this year in connection with the college's plans for the provision of extra accommodation. The amount involved is £35,000.

I trust that the purposes for which extra money is being made available in these Supplementary Estimates for the Votes, Office of the Minister for Education, Primary, Secondary and Vocational Education and Universities and Colleges, will commend themselves to the House and I ask for its approval accordingly of the Supplementary Estimates involved.

In so far as these Supplementary Estimates are concerned and so far particularly as they refer to money required to pay additional salaries agreed at conciliation and arbitration, no exception whatsoever can be taken to them. There is one item to which I should like to refer and perhaps the Minister would give us some information on it. I refer to the excess in Subhead F.1. which the Minister states is owing "to a special payment of £19,000 to a firm engaged full-time in the publication of books in Irish." Perhaps the Minister would let us have some further information on this matter, as to the firm concerned, and as to the type of publication to which he refers. He does not give us any information on the subject. Perhaps he will give us some information as to the expenditure of money under this heading.

With regard to the expenditure of money on primary schools, I know that most of the Supplementary Estimate is required to meet the additional costs of salaries of an increased number of teachers resulting from the continuing improvement in school staffing conditions. I should like to refer the Minister to a problem which has arisen in Dublin, and in other parts of the country too, that is, the problem of non-aided primary schools. I understand there are a number of these schools in Dublin in which the staff engaged have no qualifications whatsoever, and when the students move from those schools to secondary schools they are not up to the standard of what I might describe as recognised primary schools. I wonder is the School Attendance Act being properly enforced in permitting students to attend such schools.

I am personally aware that a number of primary teachers are very worried about the increasing number of these non-aided or non-recognised primary schools in the city of Dublin. Perhaps the Minister would look into it with particular reference to the fact that the School Attendance Act may not be complied with in so far as these schools are concerned, whether he is satisfied with the standard of teaching in these schools, and whether the standard of teaching is sufficient to enable pupils from non-recognised primary schools to follow on with further secondary education.

On the question of secondary education, I understand a survey has been carried out recently by the Minister and his Department and, as a result, there is zoning of secondary education in certain areas. It is proposed to practically compulsorily boycott certain secondary schools in favour of other secondary schools. I understand there is no county in which this is more prevalent than County Donegal. I certainly hope no existing secondary school will be victimised in any way as a result of this zoning of secondary schools. I am aware of two secondary schools in the Fíor-Ghaeltacht, one in Dungloe and the other in Gweedore. I sincerely hope no official sanction will be given to any scheme which might militate against the curtailment of the catchment area for prospective students of those schools. It would be a very bad thing indeed if such should happen and I sincerely hope it will not.

Now, when we are so conscious of our prospective entry into the Common Market, I wonder is sufficient emphasis being laid on the teaching of continental languages in our secondary schools? Perhaps it might be possible to give students attending secondary school more generous scholarships to enable them, in the modern era, to brush up their continental languages because, if and when we do enter the Common Market, that may be a very severe handicap. After all, those engaged in the export industry will not be confined to university graduates, and a working knowledge of at least one continental language will be more advantageous to all those engaged in the export drive. Perhaps the Minister could, and would, consider more generous scholarships to enable pupils to visit the continent and brush up, or acquire, at least a spoken knowledge of one continental language.

With regard to Subhead 4—Vocational Schools—it is very good to know the Minister has been so generous in his grants to vocational committees for the establishment and enlargement of existing vocational schools. After all, as the Minister points out in his speech, the local contribution is limited to 24 pence in the £ and it is practically impossible for local authorities to carry out their planned programme of vocational school building on such limited funds. Were it not for the generous grants procured from the Department, it would be impossible to carry on. The Minister should ensure, when local authorities build such vocational schools, money will not prevent them being properly staffed. Donegal Vocational Education Committee last year built a magnificent school at Gweedore but, when they came to apply for sanction for the employment of teachers they were shot down by the Minister and his Department, and no money was provided.

Mr. O'Malley

That is not correct.

I think it is, because protest meetings were held throughout the area. I was not available to attend such meetings but I understand my colleague and friend, Deputy Breslin, did attend such protest meetings and, as a result, it was possible to syphon off teachers from other schools to man the new school building. In that way, staff was procured for this very fine school erected in the Fíor-Ghaeltacht. I am aware that Donegal Vocational Education Committee have plans for the building of many schools throughout the county and I sincerely hope there will be some liaison between the secondary education branch of the Minister's Ministry and the vocational education branch thereof. Otherwise, they may find themselves drawing students out of a very small pool, particularly when this free-for-all secondary education becomes law on the 1st September next; there may be a rush for secondary schools, at the expense of vocational schools. I sincerely hope that will not happen, and that the Minister will continue to emphasise the importance of vocational and comprehensive schools throughout the country. I am a little disappointed at the delay in completing the limited comprehensive school programme the Minister announced some time ago. I sincerely hope those comprehensive schools will proceed, as planned, and that there will be no difficulty about the staffing of them.

With regard to the universities— which are provided for under Vote 33 —we cannot take very much exception to the expenditure of money on enlargement of existing universities but, now that a controversy has again crept into the position of Dublin University —Trinity College—I think the Minister should use his good offices to try to clarify that position. I am taking no sides in this matter, but here we have a magnificent university situate in the very centre of the capital, with a campus second to none, with building facilities available, and our sister university—the National University— is cramped for space. We are aware that the authorities of Dublin University will welcome students from any part of the 32 counties of Ireland to the curriculum provided in their college, but certain people object to a certain section of the community attending Dublin University. There appears to be new thought on this matter and opinion appears to be divided. I think the Minister could use his good offices in this matter and, possibly, consult the divergent views and try to unify them on this subject. It would be of considerable advantage to university education in this country; it would provide many more places for prospective students wishing to acquire a university education. I would appeal to the Minister—knowing, as I do, he has got the ear of at least some of those parties with divergent views—to try to bring these together, particularly in view of the fact that one of the authorities of Dublin University welcomes this new outlook, and this new look. Perhaps the Minister would try to do something in that matter and endeavour to make available to undergraduates and future graduates the advantages of Dublin University.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
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