Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 19 Apr 1967

Vol. 227 No. 12

Committee on Finance. - Resolution No. 4 — General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland Revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.
— (Minister for Finance).

Before I reported progress last night, I had mentioned all the good things in the Budget that would help the small farmer and the poorer sections of the community. Everybody seems to be worrying about the small farmer for the past 12 months or so, the NFA and other organisations, and we were all glad that the small farmer got recognition in this Budget. Great play was made last year about cattle prices. Cattle prices were bad for a few months of the year, but it was the small man who suffered most. The big farmer was able to recoup his losses. In the rural constituency I represent there is a great deal of praise for the Budget among all sections. The Opposition have said that the benefits were given so that the Fianna Fáil councillors would be returned to office. It must be a good Budget or the Opposition would not adopt that attitude. They cannot have it both ways.

The small farmers will welcome the grants for milk coolers. However, most Deputies know very well that a water supply is the most essential requirement where quality milk is concerned and many small farmers lack this amenity. In some areas they have not got electricity and that would be a handicap to them. This 2d a gallon for quality milk, including the extra penny since 1st April, makes a nice figure at the end of the year and in the monthly cheque. I wonder can anything be done in the Department about increasing the grant for the water supply. Before the farmer can get a cooler he must have water. The majority of the large farmers will qualify for the cooler grant because they have the water supply.

All Deputies would like to see the small farmer on a sound footing. I have often suggested — and I should like the Minister for Lands and the Land Commission to consider it — that when holdings are being divided the small farmers nearby should be given extensions to their holdings. This is necessary if they are to increase production, increase their cattle herds and so on. At present one sees them paying £23 or £24 per acre for conacre. It was the small farmer who suffered most when cattle prices were low because he was not in a position to hold on to them until the prices improved. The big man did not lose much; if anything he gained. I know of some of them who bought cattle last November from the marts and who in five weeks' time made a substantial profit on them.

The Opposition have been criticising the imposition of a penny on the pint and 2d on cigarettes. Nobody likes taxation, but considering we have been able to do so much with so little taxation, I think it is a very good Budget.

Deputy Treacy, from the Labour benches, said yesterday it was a very dark year for Fianna Fáil. In North Tipperary, it was a fairly good year. For the tillage farmers, it was the best year they had for ten or 12 years. They had not a bad harvest last year. A question was put down asking that the price of wheat be increased. There is a good price for wheat and the people who harvested it last year were well rewarded. On the question of feeding barley, one section here will be asking for the price to be increased, but I am sure Deputy Coughlan will be talking about keeping it down for the benefit of the pig feeders.

It is easy to see from the attitude of the Opposition that this is a good Budget. It will not be a nice thing for them to have to admit outside church gates during the local election campaign that they voted against the old people getting the 5/- increase, or against the small farmers getting complete de-rating at £20 valuation, or against the other benefits to be given to the social welfare categories. They will have to answer for all that. There is no doubt that it is a very good Budget.

Having listened to Deputy Fanning, I am half convinced that he believed what he was saying, but when we consider this Budget, we must bear in mind that it was introduced solely and entirely with one target in view, the local elections on 28th June. This is a gimmick Budget. Not alone is it a gimmick Budget but it is despicable, in my opinion. We have now reduced the small farmer to the status of the pauper and the souper; he can now go to the labour exchange all the year round. Pearse was not far wrong when he said that the British had bought one half of us and intimidated the other half. That is what this Budget is doing, in my opinion. I have experience of both urban and rural Ireland. I know what the people want. What the Irish always want is independence and not soup. But that is what is being ladled out to one half of them in this Budget. We had the same thing before with the free beef. This is nothing new. It has always been the policy of Fianna Fáil to intimidate one half and bribe the other half. That is what they are trying to do in this Budget. We are told that the small farmer is being helped. He is being helped, but not in the way he wants to be helped. He wants fair prices and a chance to make a living on his holding. Our forebears bought the land dearly. They intend to hold on to it. They do not expect soup from the Minister for Finance, but that is what he has given them in this Budget. There is no provision here for the other ringmaster we have in Education.

The Deputy would not say that if he were here.

I would: he knows what I think.

I do not like interrupting the Deputy, but he has referred to a Minister in an unparliamentary way and the expression he used should be withdrawn.

I withdraw. I am the most amenable man you ever met.

I am glad to hear it.

There is no provision for the educational schemes that have been thrown out to us. Schemes were thrown out to us also under the Health Act not so very long ago; they have all gone by the board, but they were thrown out to us. Schemes for education are now being thrown out to us. We are to have free postprimary, free secondary, free technical, free vocational and free university education, with perhaps a miniuniversity for Limerick. Where in this Budget is there provision for all that free education? Let the people realise the position now; that provision will not be made until after 28th June. We will then be faced with another supplementary Budget to cater for this expensive experiment.

It is not so long since the former Taoiseach at a meeting in Letterkenny on 21st March, 1965, said:

The Government had given a great deal of thought to the local rates problem and had set up a number of committees to examine the possibility of providing for local authorities some other source of local revenue, to consider the desirability of transferring from local rates to central funds some part of the cost of local services and the feasibility of devising a method by which the burden of rates could be equalised as between one county and another.

I am quoting from the Irish Independent of 22nd March, 1965. That is the statement of the ex-Taoiseach, speaking at Letterkenny in March, 1965. Following that statement, I tabled questions here asking what had been done and all I got was the evasive reply that the committees were still considering the matter.

No provision has been made in this Budget to ease the burden of local rates. In the city of Limerick, we are faced with a sum of £15,500 for unemployment assistance, £2,300 for criminal injuries, £6,000 for industrial and reformatory schools, £6,500 for school meals and £26,850 for home assistance. Home assistance should be the responsibility of the Government. Why should the ineptitude of the Department result in casting this burden on us? Not a week passes in which I do not make two or three phone calls to the Department because people are held up in their unemployment benefit and unemployment assistance. All these things should be a charge on central funds. I do not know what the figures in Dublin, Cork and elsewhere are, but I am sure the story is pretty much the same. These charges should not be levied on the ratepayers.

The previous Minister for Local Government declared war on us — there is a letter on the records of this House — and told us that, if we did not raise the rents on our tenants, our housing subsidies would be withdrawn. In today's papers there is a statement by the present Minister for Local Government — a statement I can neither parse nor analyse — to the effect that he has no function and that he will not interfere. Where do we stand? Who is the Jeykll and Hyde in all this? We know what will happen in July. The rents will be increased because of a ministerial order by the Minister's predecessor. The Minister met a tenants' association yesterday and made a deliberately deceptive statement about increasing rents.

We are delighted the old age pensioners will get a dollar a week. God help us, to stretch a dollar now from Monday morning until Saturday night one would want to be a magician in this year of 1967. We have, on the other hand, this Taca brigade which was formed lately. At one time we used to call them Broy Harriers; we can now call them Haughey Harriers. I am wondering whether membership has been closed.

I do not know how this ties up with the Budget.

It ties up with the fact that a person can go in and pay £100 for a meal of three or four courses. It comes to the point that they have intimidated one half and bought the other half.

The Deputy's definition does not make it relevant.

I cannot see where the balance comes in. It is well known that seven people came up from Limerick to this great festival and paid their £100 while other unfortunate people below in Limerick were looking for 5/- a week and could not get it. That is the relevance of it. That is because of the intimidation and the purchase by those benches over there.

Would you take a £100 bet at the races?

I never saw you at the races. You do not know the first thing about it. If the Minister for Finance were here, he would know something about it. You go back to the cockleshells in Salthill, get your dummy and your Cow and Gate and nourish yourself.

That is the position as far as this Budget is concerned and as I see it. We have the tragic situation in the city of Limerick where the oldest bacon factory in Europe has closed down. No assistance has been given. Deputations have been received from the curers, the directors of the company and the workers. Promises were made, but they went home with one hand as long as the other. That factory, which was over 100 years in existence, is now closed. They sold their lorries late last week. Men who served for 50 years with a knife in a bacon factory are now walking up to the labour exchange in Limerick. What is being done to save it? They talk about the small farmer. That is the way to save the bacon factory: let the small farmer get value for his money and value for his work instead of ladling out soup to him which he does not want from the labour exchanges. Is that not our independence that was dearly bought? The policy of Fianna Fáil from the days of the free beef to today has been to buy half of them and intimidate the other half.

This is not confined to Limerick. In a bacon factory last week, there were ten pork butchers laid off and were it not for the good fortune and the enterprise of Clover Meats, we would have one of the biggest bacon factories in the country closed up. What are the Minister for Agriculture and the Minister for Finance doing about this? It is not today or yesterday this bacon industry matter was raised here. Two, three and four years ago, the Minister was warned and told in advance by one who comes from one of the best bacon curing centres in Europe, Limerick, what was going to happen, but no, he knew it all; he will bring them to the labour exchange instead and that is what this Budget has put before us today.

Now we are faced with this consortium of builders. I suppose it will be consortia before another six months — it will be pluralised. We have set up this consortium, the members of which are all Taca men. They were going to set Ireland free. They are going to reduce the cost of building and going to do all the planning. I wonder what it cost to be a member of this consortium for the building. In another six months we will have consortia all over the country for everything. This is the intimidation of one half and the purchase of the other.

This is a despicably mean Budget. It is something that was not introduced last year because we postponed the local elections. It is introduced for one aim and one aim only, that is, 28th June, local elections day. After 28th June let it be understood and let the people of Ireland realise that we will be facing another Budget. The hairshirt will be brought upon us then.

I want to remind the Minister for Education or the Minister for Finance of the difficulties that we in local authorities are faced with because of the burdens that are placed on us which I believe should be central charges. We had it here at Question Time today with regard to valuations. We all know how valuations are arrived at. There is one thing about the whole question of valuations: there is not a qualified valuer in Ireland and there is no means of being a qualified valuer. The rate collector comes along and he makes his charge. You can appeal by 1st April but in nine cases out of ten, the appeal is rejected.

We voted for this Budget not because we agreed with it but because we saw some consideration for unfortunate people. Indeed the five bob they gave will not send anybody home in a taxi on a Saturday night, even from Deputy Fitzpatrick's premises. I am sorry he is not here. It is about time we all realised — we have seen it — that the gimmick merchants, the Taca brigade——

Tic-taca.

——the Haughey Harriers — I do not know whether to call them harriers or beaglers — are devouring those who have been bought and the other half who are intimidated. There are the postmasters and postmistresses and the other people throughout the country who are all Fianna Fáil appointees. They have been intimidating unfortunate people and deceiving them every day, telling them: "If you do not vote this way you will lose your pension; you will be cut off; there will be an inspector down on top of you." This Budget is typical of that sort of thing and from the Labour benches, I want to deplore it. It is a shame; it is intimidation; it is despicable even to suggest such things to the Irish people.

It is always interesting to hear Deputies make elaborate pronouncements about the heavy burden of rates, about how much the Central Government should bear of the cost of municipal and other services. They never propose the taxes that would have to be placed on the community at large if a greater volume of local authority expenditure were transferred to be the responsibility of the central Government. In fact, the Government have gone a very good distance, adding to the percentage of total local authority expenditure which is met by the central Government in successive years.

In the case of my constituency, the Government pay something between 62 per cent and 64 per cent of Monaghan County Council's costs for roads, housing, health and other services. This includes the total expenditure by the local urban councils at least, it cannot be said that the Government have been negligent in that respect. In so far as Monaghan is concerned, in the year 1966-67, the farmers were paying about five per cent more in agricultural rates on land than they were paying in the year 1956-57, and that was before the recent arrangements were made, which will be introduced this year, for a derating of farms under £20 valuation — another contribution by the Government towards relieving local authorities as far as possible from burdensome rates.

Undoubtedly rates in towns have gone up very much in recent years. I made a calculation to see whether there was anything desperately unfair about it and as the House knows, there is continuing inquiry into the whole rating situation, but it is significant to know that in 1965-66 compared with 1958, the total rates in the urban districts had not increased any more than the national income. Of course, that does not mean that everybody in the town experienced a rise in income equivalent to the national average but it means there was nothing extraordinary, no distortion, in the picture of rising rates even though they fall heavily on certain sections of the community. However, certain sections of the community have received social benefits of many kinds to meet that contingency.

I mention that in passing because one hears such irresponsible talk from people like Deputy Coughlan. He made all sorts of reckless charges, accusing the Government of corruption and saying that the Irish people could be intimidated by alleged corruption and that by intimidating them, they could be induced to support the Government. It was a very reckless charge made against what could be regarded as the ultimate integrity of our people. I was surprised to learn that Deputy Coughlan's opinion of the people is so low, as, I have no doubt, the people of Limerick will be surprised when they read of his allegations.

He suggested that the Government are associated with a vast amount of political patronage. It is just as well we should bear some facts in mind. There are only about ten countries in the living world where such a huge proportion of appointments in the central and local service are effected on the basis of merit, as are here. There are very few countries in the world where there are so few appointments which in fact are in the gift of the Government or on a political basis. That situation has been maintained and has not been altered in any way during the very long period in office of the Fianna Fáil Government. Long may it remain so.

Deputy Coughlan referred to certain appointments where he knows very well that whatever may be political aspects of the appointments, in general, the people who have a great deal of family responsibilities, in lower paid posts and who are fully qualified, get appointed regardless of their political affiliation. Deputy Coughlan should go abroad and he will undoubtedly realise how very proud we can be not only of the incorruptibility of the Fianna Fáil Government and their antecedents but of the relatively small amount of patronage that is exercised here. Patronage is inevitable in every democracy but whatever our problems, we need not be ashamed of our position in that respect.

Having dealt with Deputy Coughlan's scurrilous assertions and with his comparison of a contribution of £100 to political funds with the social welfare services, which went up by £1 million this year, I may now proceed to examine the Budget. I add my voice to those of other Deputies in rejecting utterly the ridiculous statements suggesting that the Government have for the first time come to the aid of the West because there are local elections impending. The Government, since they took office in 1957, and indeed in their previous periods of administration, but in 1957 after a period of unparalleled emigration and unemployment, have constantly provided increased State grants for production, have constantly stimulated the development of the economy and have come to the aid of farmers while increasing social services. These additions took place in practically every single year of our office since 1958 and have varied in quality and quantity. Aid has been provided for farmers, big and small, on a basis never before seen in the history of the country.

Total farm aid in all forms amounts to about £60 million this year. In 1956, it was at the level of £15 million or £16 million. That indicates very considerable progress. Aid is continued in regard to agriculture, to tourist capital development, to the promotion of tourism. It is continued on an upward basis for rural electrification, for the development of our roads and, as I have said, the idea that we abandoned the West until this Budget and that now we have contributed to some small extent, is utterly ludicrous.

I had occasion to go to Galway the other day to speak on a political occasion and I wanted to see for myself what had been done for the people of County Galway since 1956, the last year of the Coalition Government, in order to refute suggestions that were made there that Galway has been abandoned, that nothing has been done to bring economic and social development to that very typical western county. I found there were 20,000 farmers in the county and that since 1956, 20,000 acres of land have been added to the existing holdings of just about 1,600 small farms. That is a costly business, and it indicates progress in land settlement. We would like to have made more progress but that indicates a very considerable change in the structure of the farms in Galway in a period of just ten years.

We find that in Galway, for example, 22,000 acres of trees had been planted, that is, roughly 70 square miles of forests had been planted, again indicating a contribution to the county which can be illustrated in other counties all over the West. This is merely a typical example of the sort of contribution that has been made continuously during the past ten years.

The Government, through a wise policy, have surfaced the county roads. This is something which in fact I had the privilege of initiating back in 1946 when I was Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Local Government and it has resulted in the tar surfacing of 1,000 miles of county roads in Galway alone, since 1957 — again indicating very great progress.

I could continue in that vein for a long time, illustrating the progress which has been made and pointing out that some of the new incentives in grants and increases in the price of milk this year are all part of a continuous campaign to bring help to the small farmers in particular and to encourage economic and social development in the 12 western and northwestern counties. I wish we could find another name for the West because Cavan, Monaghan and Leitrim are included in the counties which urgently need development.

I was calculating the other day for my constituents the actual contribution in terms of cash by way of subsidies to maintain farm prices in my constituency. Including the amounts to keep down the rates on land and including the price supports for pigs — and Monaghan has seven per cent of the pigs in the country — and including the price supports for dairy products and the sow headage grants and the fertiliser grants, I worked out that the 6,800 farmers in Monaghan received help from the Government last year to the amount of something between £800,000 and £1 million. That was for one county.

Monaghan farmers have to work very hard. A lot of the land is rather cold and wet. They have to face all the hazards of wind and weather and they deserve that kind of aid because of the difficulty of maintaing farm incomes about which the House has full knowledge. Nevertheless, this indicates that the Government made some contribution to stimulate greater farm production and bring an economic income to the farmers. In a small county like that, the farmers who complain of the aid given would be in a very serious position if that £800,000 to £1 million ceased to flow into the county. I hope that more and more aid will be given in the future.

I do not think that a great many people yet realise the difficulty of transferring income from the non-farming community to the farming community in a country where we have not yet established sufficient industries. This was referred to very briefly in the magnificent Budget Statement of the Minister for Finance but it seems to me that it has to be repeated over and over again in the hope that just a few thousand more people will read what is said, appreciate it and understand the problems we have to face. We have pointed out that the incomes of the farming population have gone up by about 70 per cent per head since 1958.

A considerable amount of that increase is due to migration from the land. It is very interesting to read in the Report on Full Employment the figures for migration from the land for the OECD countries published in the appendix. We can see that migration from the land has proceeded just as rapidly in almost every other country in Europe as it has here and that it is a universal factor in economic development.

As I have said, the income of the farming population has gone up 70 per cent per head and the income of the rest of the community has gone up roughly the same amount, or perhaps a little more, since 1958. The difference in income between the two communities places us just about halfway down a list of a number of European countries. There are a number of European countries where the income per person in agriculture as a percentage of the whole economy is less than it is here and there are some where it is more. We are about halfway down the list. Naturally all of us would like to see us higher up in the list. I have the figures for some years ago only. Probably they have not changed very much. They may have improved slightly as a result of the coming into operation of the agricultural system of the European Economic Community. Non-farming incomes grow so rapidly that every country has found it impossible to bring the incomes of the farming community level with those of the rest of the community.

In a recent year the income of the Irish farming community per head was 68 per cent of the income of the average economy. The figure for Denmark was 73, for West Germany, 50 and for France, 51 per cent, showing again that we were in a comparable position. It is very unfair for people to deride the Government for not doing more to reduce the difference in incomes without at the same time pointing out that our industrial resources are insufficient. We have heavy taxation in order to shift the balance in the right direction. We have heavy taxation in order to provide price supports for the farming community which last year were valued at between £17 million and £19 million.

One way to examine this is to look at the non-agricultural resources available in the various countries to support an equal amount of agricultural output in each of the countries. Taking Irish non-agricultural resources as 100 —that is to say if you have 100 units of non-farming resources here to be taxed in order to transfer income to the farming community, what is the same number of units in a number of countries which have had their freedom for a great deal longer and many of which have more industrial raw materials and where industrial development has proceeded on a much more extensive basis than ours, although we are advancing — we find that in an agricultural country like Denmark which had the advantage of freedom at a very early stage, democracy and a splendidly run system of finance, although that appears to be an agricultural country they have twice the non-farming resources from which to transfer income to their farmers.

I do not want to give all the figures but the British have 8½ to nine times our resources; France has over three times our resources. This provides a very great problem for any Government earnestly desiring to break down the difference between the incomes of the farmers and the non-farming community. We can only hope that as industrial development continues steadily year by year and as tourist development continues, while we are not in EEC and have to find subsidies to aid farmers by supporting their prices, we shall have to continue this aid at an increasing pace. When we join EEC, there may be increases in our cost of living which, in itself, will be a kind of taxation, which will be of assistance to the farming community. I believe people ought to recognise these facts because they cannot be got around. Any Government who want to help the farmers will always have to look at the amount of non-farm resources which can be taxed. I said some time ago that if the cost of living goes up because of increases in the price of food and people want to remocrac compense themselves by having increased wages they may do so but they will find that the Government will almost inevitably have to tax them in order to find money to transfer to the farmers. I said we should not regret increases that arise in the price of food as a result of the farmers securing higher prices for their produce.

I was speaking of the increased grants and facilities offered in the Budget. I wanted particularly to speak on some matters which concern my Department. I am quite certain that, in certain regions of the West, tourism will play the greatest part in increasing the incomes of the people there and in attempting to stabilise the population. I doubt if the population of the West can be stabilised in the very near future. I believe the Government should do their utmost to provide centres of growth in the West by the stimulation of agriculture, industry and tourism in order to offer the greatest possible opportunities for employment so that the largest number of people possible will be retained in these western counties.

As I said, I think there are certain areas where tourist development will play a very major part. For example, I could mention the fact that in Counties Kerry and Cork, the tourist income in a recent year amounted to some £7½ million. The effect of tourist income is not immediately apparent. It is not like opening a factory and employing 200 people where the workers go every day and receive their wages at the end of the week. It is an all-pervasive income spreading over a large variety of people. If that income of £7½ million ceased in that area, then the people there would realise the immense value of the tourist industry for those two counties and, indeed, for the whole of the western counties in general.

In this Budget, we have provided very considerable increases in the grants for new hotel accommodation. We hope to channel these grants to a great extent to hotels and extensions of hotels in the western areas, that is, areas where development is required, where tourist centres would have still further help in expanding their hotel resources. The Bord Fáilte grant for accommodation development is being increased this year by some £200,000 to £700,000. We need some 2,000 extra bedrooms a year between hotels, guesthouses and private houses in order to achieve the target of a 100 per cent increase in the volume of tourist income based on 1960 prices. We are very nearly up to target. We are a shade off target as a result of the seamen's strike last year. This is a particular economic development which is up to target to a greater extent than any other that we have at present. I felt it was most essential to continue this development because it spreads money among a very large number of people.

The Economist Intelligence reported to Bord Fáilte — an Opposition supporter is very closely associated with that body — that about 160,000 people were directly or indirectly employed as a result of the tourist industry. The report indicated that the tourist industry has the effect of adding ten per cent to the population. If one assumed that the tourists remained here permanently, then it would be the equivalent to the income spent by an addition of ten per cent to the population. Tourism also has a very important effect on expanding Government income through taxation. Every £ spent by the tourist and every £ spent on development helps to provide income for State services and, in turn, for the development of the country.

I want to repeat, in rather more detail, what is being done this year to help in the extension and the growth of hotel accommodation throughout the country, particularly in the West. New hotels in the 12 western counties can now get, at the discretion of Bord Fáilte, grants of up to 35 per cent of total construction costs as compared with 25 per cent previously. One of the reasons for giving these increased grants has been the recent inflation, the growth of building costs, the cost of building new hotels, particularly in the remoter parts of the West because of the carriage of the materials. Another reason is the fact that the season is relatively short.

There are many places in the West with magnificent scenic amenities where it is simply impossible to get functional business in the winter and hotels and guesthouses may have to close even though the season is steadily growing. Quite a number of hotels in Connaught in completely isolated districts remained open last year until 15th November. Everything is being done by Bord Fáilte to extend the season so that it will be easier for hotels to pay their way and so that employment will be for a longer period. Hotels adding bedrooms in the West can qualify for grants of up to 50 per cent compared with 40 per cent elsewhere. New hotels, not getting total construction grants, can get 30 per cent grants in the West towards dining areas, kitchens, and so on.

Then there is the very essential development of caravan and camping sites. Bord Fáilte are going to register caravan and camping sites to ensure that they are of the right standard. They have been consulting with the Minister for Local Government to ensure that, from the point of view of sanitation, the standards are agreed. It is very important that caravan parks should not destroy the scenery. It is very important that they should be placed properly. It is very important that that should be done as a result of the decision of the local planning authorities. When they are placed, the amenities should be such as not to detract from the total appearance of the area where they are located. Bord Fáilte is giving a 50 per cent grant towards site development costs and that, again, will be a help in the West.

Guesthouses also can get grants provided that there are at least five bedrooms on completion of the work. Then, for some time, we have been considering what we could do to help farmhouse development. The number of farmhouses that offer accommodation to tourists has been growing steadily. I think the figure for this year will be something between 700 and 1,000 bedrooms. I cannot remember the exact figure but it is somewhere about that for the entire country. We have been trying to devise some method by which we can encourage farmhouse owners to develop their premises. The scheme will be announced later — costing about £100,000 this year. It will apply to the 12 western counties. I think it will be partly on a co-operative basis. Bord Fáilte will select an area where there is an attractive beach, lake or river, a tourist area, and then will arrange for some local development association to be formed. Having assessed the number of empty houses in good condition which could be let to visitors if they were improved and the number of houses in which visitors can be accommodated and catered for, they will set about making arrangements for providing assistance towards the better furnishing of these houses, providing furniture of a suitable kind so that visitors will be comfortable. At the same time, arrangements will be made for catering courses to be given where required, as is already done in many towns where angling development is taking place. At the same time, there will have to be an examination of the roads structure in the district. There may be a hostel built in the area. This is a scheme which has been tentatively worked out and may begin on a modest scale and may result in what for want of a better term we will call tourist centres being created. They will be created around a sufficiently good tourist amenity in order to attract tourists.

It has been suggested already, for example, that the Glencolumbkille area, where Father McDver is doing his splendid work, would be a suitable area for development of this kind. Bord Fáilte have been examining a number of areas in the West. I might add that they must have the choice of these areas. It is no good people pressing me to decide that some place should be included in the scheme. They are to be given the authority and they will have to begin on a modest basis and learn by experience what is the best method of development. Bord Fáilte have made a splendid success of the resort development scheme for which this year the grant has been doubled. They have improved amenities at a great many resorts and have certainly developed hotel accommodation on a successful basis. I have no doubt that they will use the same imagination and resourcefulness in going ahead with the farmhouse scheme.

The Budget also provides some urgently needed funds towards transport development of various kinds. For example, cargo has grown so much in volume at Dublin Airport that we need a complete new cargo terminal of the most modern type to carry the hugely increasing volume of cargo exported to other countries and imported here by air. As a result of the growth of Aer Lingus, we need an entirely new catering building at Dublin Airport. I mention these to illustrate the kind of developments that are taking place. I am very glad to note also that the estimated projection for traffic at Cork Airport has been grossly exceeded. We are extending the catering area at Cork this year, again an example of this Budget's contribution towards economic development.

I am also glad to announce that the credit squeeze which affected rural electrification development has been relieved in the Capital Budget and that the capital allocation for rural electrification in this year is nearly £2 millions compared with £1.3 millions last year. The halt that took place in rural electrification last year has now ceased and the development of this work will continue on a steady basis. The present scheme, we reckon, will end by 1970 and 1971, and we hope by that time a very considerable proportion of the entire rural community will have been joined to the network without having to pay extra fixed charges or will have to pay only a very modest increase in the normal fixed charge. As I stated to the House before, it is a fact that 96 per cent of all rural dwellers can be joined to the system without paying excessive fixed service charges, and if we are able to do that, we will examine the position of the remainder.

I can say, looking at the picture of Europe as a whole, that if by 1970 and 1971, we have joined 96 per cent of the people to the system, we will compare quite well with countries with an even higher standard of living and higher incomes per head than we have. That does not necessarily mean that everybody will want to join. Out of some 377,000 rural dwellers, there are 27,000 who could be joined to the system without paying any additional fixed charge. I merely mention that in passing. We are examining what we can do about the remaining four per cent about which I have had many representations in regard to people who feel they are living in areas where they are surrounded by people with electricity, who already have power, and who are offered connection at very burdensome supplementary fixed charges. We are going to examine that to see what can be done towards the completion of the campaign.

In this year's Capital Budget the Government naturally have to give consent to State companies engaging in capital development and I just want to mention how glad I am that the B & I have placed an order for a car ferry for the Dublin-Liverpool service. This will be a very fast vessel which will be able to do a number of trips each day. It will have seating capacity for 1,000 passengers and accommodation for 220 cars. The company are financing this project out of their own resources and have been permitted to engage in this capital venture which I hope will be successful. I should mention in passing also that the new bulk carrier for Irish Shipping of 34,000 tons deadweight will be delivered in October, 1967. The company's fleet will then consist of 14 dry cargo vessels totalling 162,000 tons deadweight and these vessels will include a high proportion of ships that are relatively modern. I do hope that Irish Shipping will be able to meet more successfully the very low freight rates that have existed throughout the world for the past few years.

Again, in connection with modern economic development, the capital grant for the Post Office telephone programme has been increased this year and I hope we will be able to go ahead with the laying of more cables and circuits, which in turn will enable more telephones to be installed and more exchanges to be converted to the automatic system. I might add that there has been an explosion in telephone development. The Post Office had to compete with other services for capital, there has been a fairly large number of applications on the waiting list, but other countries also have their waiting lists. The number has been fairly large here but I hope that we will be able to reduce it to 8,000 by 31st March, 1968. That would be a considerable reduction as compared with previous years.

I hope we will be able to deal with all the people who have been waiting for a very long time for telephones, particularly those in the country. I have continued to press the policy of my predecessor that we simply must not keep people in rural communities waiting because we know it will require more manhours to connect them than to connect people in the towns. People in the country, particularly those who are increasing production and who need the telephone for personal or social purposes, and people on the priority list, should be connected as rapidly as possible. I hope that programme will continue.

As I said, I wanted to show that in the case both of tourism and transport this Budget has given aid for further development and we are overcoming some of the backlog of work that resulted from the credit squeeze and the difficulties which our country and others encountered in the last two years. I particularly wish to speak also about the pilot farm scheme. We have not heard half enough about that scheme from Deputies on all sides of the House. Probably it will prove to be the greatest scheme of all for encouraging the ambitious farmer in our community to extend production and use modern methods. It is very interesting that the pilot farm scheme, by its success, has disproved a great deal of cynical comment that is made about Irish farmers in general. It is true that farmers here, as in the case of farmers in Scotland, are not particularly keen on the full-blooded type of Danish co-operative system and co-operative development, while excellent in many areas, has not proceeded on the same splendid basis as in Denmark.

It is true that the previous Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries strengthened the Irish Agricultural Wholesale Organisation Society in order to show what can be done to bring about the best from what I might call the full co-operative system which one finds in certain areas now. But a great many people would not have said it was possible for all the instructors and Government officials concerned with farm production to get neighbourhood groups together and discuss in common with them what could be done to improve production in their area, what schemes could be devised, how the whole area, apart from the individual holdings, could be improved so that there would be greater stock density and an increase in production. The scheme devised by the previous Minister for Agriculture has succeeded very admirably and I should like to stress the importance of the decision by the Minister for Finance and the Government that the pilot farm area schemes can be extended this year and I hope they will grow.

I was very interested in that connection to get some particulars of the success of the scheme in Galway county where in the pilot farm area no less than 11 neighbourhood groups were formed. In the one area some 607 acres of land were limed and manured through the fertiliser credit scheme and the capital fertiliser scheme by which the whole of the land receives capital, big application for fertiliser over a period of three years and the cost is put on the annuities. It is a scheme that is not publicised sufficiently and those members of my constituency who adopted the scheme found it of great value particularly in the case of a young man who inherits a farm which is badly run through the illness of the father or the indifference of whoever owned it before.

In the one parish nearly 2,000 tons of limestone fertiliser were applied apart from this capital application of fertiliser in respect of certain areas. Also, 82 farm building projects were completed in this single parish area. What was very interesting is that loans totalling some £20,000 were taken by the farming community and it was interesting to note that when farmers come together and discuss their problems and meet all the advisers and all those concerned with helping them, greater progress can be made than if they considered these matters purely separately and apart from each other. The success of the scheme indicates that the Minister for Agriculture can think more intensively on the same lines. The scheme is succeeding in my own constituency in the Aghabog area and I hope everybody will examine what is being done. The giving out of more credit is interesting because in the report from the rural economy division of An Foras Talúntais there was an analysis of the extent to which farmers took credit. The investigators found that incomes on farms where they had taken medium credit were about one-third higher than in the case of farms where no credit had been used. They also pointed out that in the western areas very little credit and very little money had been borrowed by farmers for productive purposes. One can see in practically every one of the pilot area reports a big increase in the amounts borrowed for productive purposes on the advice of all people concerned with the project.

Along with the pilot farm area scheme the Government have also provided more money for the Land Commission to see what can be done to improve the land structure in these pilot farm areas. One can notice in every one of these areas that there is considerable fragmentation of farms. The farms are scattered, but apart from what we call traditionally the rundale system, in a great many areas the farms are not compactly situated and there is also quite a considerable area in each of the pilot farm areas owned by people who are unlikely to make progress in farming, old people living alone whose children have gone away.

I was glad to see more money provided for the Land Commission in order to bring about growth in the size of viable farm units and to assist in ending or eliminating fragmentation in these areas. We have not been given the full details of the incentive bonus scheme as proposed by the special committee set up by the Minister for Agriculture, but again, that is a scheme to assist farmers to produce more and I hope it will succeed. I also hope that the scheme can somehow be integrated with the pilot farm area scheme.

Finally, I hope every member of the House will read from cover to cover the Report on Full Employment which I think in some ways is the most important document issued in this country since 1948. It is a document to which both employers and trade unions have subscribed and the most important parts of it are not the endless statistics which are of a purely speculative type in that the authors of the Report do not pretend to devise a plan for full employment, but the paragraphs which refer to the national attitude of our people towards development. They make it clear that no matter how perfect a Government may be in developing the economy and providing the necessary capital aids, providing education, retraining workers whose occupations must be changed as a result of inevitable changes in industry, that ultimately it will be the attitude of the people that will enable us to progress towards full employment. The Report refers to the necessity for a very great increase in productivity in industry and in agriculture if we are to see a sufficient number of our people employed in this country. It refers rather grimly to the fact that almost inevitably some 101,000 people will leave the land between now and 1980.

In making this statement the Report refers to the average rate of migration from the land in the whole of the OECD countries over a period of years. The Council members cannot see this inevitable migration from the land ceasing. They make a rough estimate of what they think it will be, which of course means that employment in industry will have to be accelerated. The report makes it clear that it is possible that money incomes will inevitably rise but if they rise faster than what would provide for competitive exports there is no hope of securing full employment.

In fact, the report confirms what a great many people, economists and Ministers of my Government, have been saying ever since the beginning of the inflation in 1962. I myself felt very relieved when I read the report prepared by trade unions, employers and others which confirmed the many realistic statements my colleagues and I have made about how perfect the position of this country was from 1958 to 1961 in regard to our being free of inflation. During those three years employment increased, exports increased and real incomes increased without any inflation.

Emigration increased.

Then from 1961 onwards the inflation began.

The turnover tax was brought in.

Of course, there is inflation in other countries. We have to face the fact that the British people who managed to exist and have their standard of living grow tremendously on the basis of being able to borrow £1,000 million from their neighbours and their trading associates have now come to the end of their own capacity to permit further inflation. We are trading partners with them and will continue to trade with them on a majority basis until many years after we join the European Economic Community. We were able to suffer inflation because the English economy was suffering inflation. That has stopped and whatever action the Labour Government there take in order to restrain incomes, whether it is by some form of compulsion or agreement they simply have not the reserves ever again to engage in the deadly inflation which they experienced in the past ten years.

We started our period of severe inflation and now for the moment it is over. If we begin inflation again, as we did from 1961 onwards, we will have no hope of reaching full employment and no hope of taking advantage of the money available in this Budget for economic and social development. It is interesting to see that this fact is now confirmed by the nine principal trade union leaders of this country who have warned that money incomes of all kinds must not rise faster than dictated by increased production and if we are to have full employment we must make certain that our own national attitudes are correct.

The Report on Full Employment is interesting because it takes the searchlight glare off the Government, at least to the extent that whether the Government act rightly or wrongly, whether our policy is perfect or as in the case of most Governments they do their best for the community, that the future of the economy depends on the people. It will depend on the national attitudes of the people and on their attitude towards the rest of the community.

I hope we will have an opportunity of debating this report some time in the Dáil because it is a completely impartial report prepared without any Party bias and signed by some of the leading people in this country. It is a report which treats inflation and everything associated with it as a deadly menace. I hope it will be studied by everybody concerned. The fact is that we have made progress since 1958 but that progress was delayed from 1964 onwards because of causes over which we had no control, such as the universal credit squeeze, the import levy imposed by the British Government, by the British difficulties and also by our own refusal to accept the rules which are printed in black and white in the Report on Full Employment.

Could I, with your permission, ask the Minister one question?

Questions are usually put at the end.

I do not mind answering a question if I have the information.

Could the Minister tell me the loss on the railway between Fermoy and Waterford? It was estimated by CIE that there would be a saving of £50,000 per year. I got this figure from the Minister's Department. Could the Minister tell me what profit will be made because of the closing down of this railway and the change over to road services? Could the Minister give me any figure to say what saving there will be?

It is a very detailed question. All I can remember is that CIE were going to save some £300,000 in capital expenditure which was required if the railway was to be preserved. The closing down of the railway was to benefit the income of CIE something from £40,000 to £50,000 a year.

Has the Minister no figures?

The Chair is calling Deputy Luke Belton.

I am merely concerned in this Budget to find what is in it for the people of North-Central Dublin, the people I represent here. North-Central Dublin is mainly made up of working people and to be quite frank with you, in this Budget I cannot see any concessions or any reliefs for those people. It does not matter from what part of the country Deputies come, they all know that the main bone of contention in Dublin at the moment, and the greatest need which exists at the present, is adequate housing.

It has been repeated several times in this House that in order to get a house from Dublin Corporation, a man, his wife and three children must be living in one room. Therefore, the ordinary person looking for a house has not much hope of getting one from Dublin Corporation for many years to come. Now take the case of the man who is determined to buy his own house. Does this Budget give him any incentive that has not been there before? The maximum loan such a person could get from a local authority is £2,700. If he has to buy a house, it will cost him £3,700. Very few people, at least the people in North-Central Dublin, can hope to have a deposit of £1,000.

This Budget has not done anything to ease the position of those people. It has not given any encouragement to them. It has not even increased the amount which local authorities could agree to give by way of a loan. We were told by the Minister for Local Government that one of the greatest needs in Dublin at the present time is land for housing, that Dublin Corporation are land-thirsty at the moment and that whatever land is available is unfortunately controlled by a few individuals. We know that some of those individuals are prominent supporters of the Government. Dublin Corporation have been exhorted to use all their powers, even compulsory acquisition, to acquire land. Recently Dublin Corporation tried to operate a compulsory purchase order in the very area which the Minister for Finance represents out in the Kilbarrack-Swan's Nest area. The application was sent to the Minister for Local Government for sanction and he sanctioned practically one-half and that was left to private developers who are known to be in sympathy with the Government.

With regard to the ESB allowance for old age pensioners, last night when Deputy Flanagan was referring to this, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs was sitting opposite and cynically remarked: "I suppose you will claim credit for that, too." Unfortunately, there are no members of Dublin Corporation here at present. If they were here, I am sure they would agree that two or three years ago, a Fine Gael member of Dublin Corporation brought this matter before the corporation and gave instances of people in his area who had their ESB power cut off because they owned bills of 12/- to 14/-, of which 11/- was meter charge, which meant that the actual amount of light they consumed amounted to 2/- to 3/-. This Deputy took it on himself to go to the ESB to see whether anything could be done to help these people or relieve them of this charge. He was told by the ESB that it was not possible to devise any means of surmounting this obstacle.

I am glad to see the Fianna Fáil Party have now come around, and that the Minister for Finance has succeeded in devising a way whereby old age pensioners will be relieved of this charge. Indeed, very few people will use these 100 units free of charge. They will not use it in lighting and I think that anybody who knows the old age pensioners of Dublin will agree that 90 per cent of them do not cook by electricity, so that they cannot use it for cooking. Ninety per cent of them use gas but they will still have to pay for the gas, unless the Minister is prepared to supply them with electric cookers.

They could get free gas.

They will not get free gas. Quite recently I was in touch with the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs and Transport and Power asking him whether it would be possible to issue free TV licences to old age pensioners. He sent me an acknowledgment and said that he would consider the matter and would communicate with me later. After some considerable time, he wrote again. I have not the letter now but the gist of it was that he was in entire sympathy with the idea. He was very sympathetic but the major difficulty in this proposal lay in deciding how to operate it. Now that the Minister for Finance has found a way of operating a scheme of free electricity for old age pensioners, he will have to decide who will be entitled to it. Is that not a ready-made solution if the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs wants to give free television licences? He will not have to devise any new scheme.

With regard to free travel for old age pensioners, that was advocated here some time ago. In fact, the Labour Party put down a motion here asking for free transport for old age pensioners and the Fianna Fáil Party voted against it. Now they come up with the idea that they can operate it. Deputy Clinton stated that Dublin Corporation advocated this. Not alone did they advocate it but they were willing to raise the money to pay for it. They approached CIE to see how much it would cost and CIE stated that they could not operate it and even refused to give an estimate of the cost.

Again, the Minister has found a way of overcoming this.

With regard to the increase of 5/for old age pensioners, that 5/- has been referred to by many people as the invisible 5/- which they were granted last year, which many thought they were getting but never got.

In reply to a question which I put down to the Minister for Social Welfare, he informed me that as a result of increased pensions in Britain and by applying the means test here and readjusting the old age pensions, there would be £152,500 saved. Not alone did he not give the 5/- last year but he actually took £152,500 from these people. If the Minister is really worried about those people, it is time he increased the personal allowance. I believe the allowance before interest is assessed, for income tax purposes on capital, is £25. That amount is there since 1908. The idea was to have it for the burial of old age pensioners. If £25 was regarded as necessary then, surely it should be a lot more now.

The TACA brigade will look after them.

The payment of this 5/- was rigidly controlled last year. I know of a case who because she had 10d per week income over and above was deprived of the extra 5/-.

With regard to the relief being given in income tax for hospital bills, I think even Deputies opposite will agree that that is something which Deputy Byrne has had as a pet subject for many years. He harped on this on several occasions. Seeing that Deputy Byrne and the Minister for Finance are from the same constituency, I am sure the people of North-East Dublin will regard this not as something which the Minister gave out of the generosity of his heart but as something which Deputy Byrne has forced on him by continuously advocating it.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

I read in the Irish Times on 12th April, the day after the Budget, an article by the political correspondent. He stated that one of the main benefits of the Budget meant:

that 150,000 farmers will not pay any rates at all, except on some buildings, while farmers above the limit of valuation will not pay any rates on the first £20 of valuation,...

I do not believe this is entirely true and I think the people I represent in Dublin North-Central would be very annoyed if they thought that the extra taxes which they are called upon to pay were going towards relieving farmers whose valuations are above £20. As a matter of fact, according to that report, they could be up to £100. I do not believe this is the true position and I should like the Minister to clarify it. The ordinary worker in Dublin is called upon to pay extra tax on drink and cigarettes. I am not clear — perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary could tell me — as to whether the increase in the price of milk will mean dearer milk in Dublin? I do not know whether it will, but I presume it will, and, if milk is to be dearer, I presume we will also have dearer butter. Therefore, the workers of Dublin will have to pay increased prices for milk, butter, drink and cigarettes.

The Minister mentioned that in his opening statement. He mentioned the price of milk and butter and, as far as I can recall, he said there would be no increase.

Anyway, the worker in Dublin will have to pay increased tax on drink and cigarettes. Some people have argued that the increase in drink and cigarettes is an increase on luxury goods. I do not know whether that is the view of the Parliamentary Secretary but it has been long quoted, and was actually quoted by none other than the present Taoiseach many years ago, that drink was no longer a luxury as far as the worker was concerned; that it was a necessity. I do not want you to take my word; the present Taoiseach's words were that drink is a necessity.

The Budget confers absolutely no benefits on urban dwellers and, while I shall not go into the merits or demerits of this derating on £20 valuations — I leave that to the country Deputies to discuss — it is a remarkable coincidence that in Dublin — and I regret Deputy Moore is not here because he instanced several cases at Dublin Corporation meetings of increased valuations—this year seems to be a remarkable one for increased valuations. Therefore, the people in Dublin, instead of getting any reliefs, good, bad or indifferent, in rates, are having them increased. In many cases of houses which were let as flats there were enormous increases in valuations which, in turn, led to increases in rents.

Last night, again, Deputy Flanagan referred to the small shopkeepers in Dublin who had had their valuations increased and nothing was being done for them. I am glad to see that Deputy Nolan of the opposite side was in complete agreement with Deputy Flanagan. He told of several cases where small shopkeepers had carried out repairs, which were necessary if they were to try to keep abreast of the times and seeing that they had to compete with the supermarkets et cetera— if they had any hope of survival, they had to carry out repairs — and many of them had even to go into debt to do so. I have known of cases of a couple of shopkeepers who were actually requested by Dublin Corporation to renew the fronts of their shops because they were in a dangerous condition. These people had to borrow the money because, if they did not do it, Dublin Corporation would, and they would have to pay for it. They had to borrow money to do so and, no sooner had they done it, than their valuations were increased. That is placing an enormous burden on those shopkeepers who are barely struggling for an existence. While, again, I shall not question the merits or demerits of derating for farmers, a very strong case could be made for many of those small shopkeepers getting similar reliefs and I would say they would have been just as well qualified to be derated.

There is another point I forgot about the social welfare classes. I was listening to Deputy Mrs. Desmond make a case for widows who were not being allowed for children, once they came over the age of 16, even though they were still at school. I had a case — again from the Minister's constituency —of a widow who had a young son going to school. I was actually approached by the school authorities who said that this young lad was brilliant and it would be a pity if he were denied the opportunity of education. I wrote to the Department of Social Welfare about the case and received a reply from them, part of which read:

As Mrs. X's child, Dominick, is over the age of 16 years, she is not entitled to an allowance in her widow's non-contributory pension in respect of him, even though he is still attending school. She is also no longer entitled to the statutory deduction of £39 in her means assessment in respect of this child.

The pension of 26/- a week at present in payment to this woman is based on the assessment of her means derived from her net income from subletting and from the yearly value of her capital. Where the yearly means of a widow, who has not a qualified child, exceeds £78 10s, but does not exceed £104 15s per annum, a pension at the rate of 26/- per week is payable.

It would seem to be a matter of detail for the Estimate rather than for the Budget.

When these cases exist, we cannot claim great credit for our social welfare system. Actually, I have been informed that if this woman were in the salaried class, if her husband had been a salaried person or employed in some State or semiState concern, she would receive the allowance for her son who had attained the age of 16 years while still at school. But, just because she is an ordinary worker, she will not get anything for him, even though he is still at school; she will get nothing for him once he has attained the age of 16 years.

This Budget is entirely an election Budget. Just as the first Budget last year was a Presidential election Budget, this is a local elections Budget.

We are told that the allowance the Minister has decided to give, for income tax purposes, for children under the age of 11, is a great concession; but I should like to refer again, if I may, to a statement by the present Taoiseach, contained in the Dáil Debates, Volume 150, column 895. It was the year the inter-Party Government were in power and we were told the country was at rock bottom, the year in which Deputy Burke said we had not the price of a bag of cement. In that year Deputy Sweetman, the then Minister for Finance, granted an allowance of £15 for each child and not just for those under 11 years. On that occasion the present Taoiseach said, at column 895 of volume 150:

The relief of £15 for each child is of some help in connection with the family man's net yearly income. There are many people who have no families who expected some increase in the personal allowance. Having regard to the fact that more people are being caught up in the income-tax code every year as a result of increased wages surely the Minister could have given some extra relief this year.

In the year in which everything was supposed to be at rock bottom, the present Taoiseach told the then Minister that he should be able to give direct reliefs, despite the fact he was giving a relief of £15 for each child. This year we are expected to believe it is a great concession to give £15 for each child under 11 years.

I cannot see that there is any benefit to be derived from this Budget by the ordinary working people in Dublin North-Central. They have nothing to gain because the vast majority of them, if they are married and have children, unfortunately do not earn sufficient money to pay income tax. Therefore, they do not get any relief there. In fact, they are going to have to pay more by way of extra taxation on drink and cigarettes. I do not think they get any encouragement to pay up more cheerfully from the knowledge that this extra tax is helping to pay for the derating of farms under £20 valuation.

Speaking here last night, the Minister for Social Welfare said we were one of the few countries where the old age pension was paid at 70 and that it was something he would have to look into. I suppose the implication was that we should give it at an earlier age. I must give credit here. Thirty years ago Fianna Fáil were telling the people they were going to give the old age pension at 65. I do not know whether they will have the same reasons for giving it at 65 now as they had then. The then Leader of the Party told the people he had a very sound reason. It did sound sensible enough. He said that any man, no matter how brilliant he was in any field, should realise that when he came to the age of 65, he should retire. He should retire, not because he had outstayed his time or outlived his usefulness, but to make way for the younger generation. He owed it to the younger people coming up to get out, and let them come in and play their part. As well as the change of mind about giving the pension at 65, I think recent events have more than amply proved that this same man changed his mind about retiring at 65. He thought 65 was not an opportune time to get out and do as the Fine Gael Party asked him to do —to make way for a young man to take up the position he occupies.

The Budget is designed solely to try to win the local elections. I only hope the Minister, when concluding, will give a guarantee that he will not come back in a few months' time with another Budget and ask, as his predecessor, the present Taoiseach, asked, what went wrong with his previous Budget.

The first remark I think I should make in reply to Deputy Belton is this: even though it may be 30 years since somebody decided we should get out of this place at 65, I feel there are some people who would like to think it would be 30 years before it is absolutely decided you cannot come in here after 50. Having made that remark, I suppose it would be repeating what has been said very often to say that this Budget is very welcome, and particularly welcome to the people of the West. In that part of the country, we have been left with a problem, not due to economic reasons but due to history, due to the fact we lost all our important battles. Having done so, our conquerors exploited us to the fullest, confiscated our good lands, killed whatever industry did not suit them and, as a result, the people were pushed into the bogs and mountains of the West.

It used to be "To Hell or to Connaught"; now it is "To Hell or to Coventry".

This means we still have very many families on too small farms. For many years those people accepted a low standard of living, supplemented at times by the immigrant members of their families. Following the War, a change in this pattern took place. The people then — due to economic and other reasons over which we had no control — decided they were not satisfied with that standard of living and, instead of depending on their immigrant members to supply it for them, decided they would emigrate and seek it themselves.

It is obvious that one of the biggest tasks facing any Government in this country is to provide a standard of living for the small farmers, one that will be comparable with that of the man in industry and the man on the large farm. It is a difficult thing to do, but down the years the Fianna Fáil Party have tried to do it. This Budget shows once more that they are still prepared to keep at the task. They do not consider it a hopeless one and they are prepared to try any and every worthwhile means to help the people in the West.

On the agricultural side, we are getting many benefits from this Budget. The first I should like to refer to is the £200,000 for the reformation of the land structure in the West and in the pilot areas. Any sum spent for this purpose is money very well spent. By now everybody must know what the small, progressive farmer wants. He wants to become a big farmer, and this is the main answer to his problem. Having watched the system for a few years, I feel that the Land Commission have not got sufficient power to deal with this land problem in the congested areas. Time and time again the Land Commission wished to get land. They found they have not the power to do so. They went into auctions and bid for it. It was bought at a price higher than the Land Commission could pay. They could not buy because the allotment would be of no profit to the allottees, and as a result had to withdraw from the auction. A change of law is necessary here, a change whereby the Land Commission will be able to say: "This is a congested area; we want this land". If there is no agreement about the price, an expeditious system of arbitration should be established to decide on that price so that the Land Commission can get the land.

I would go further and say that the Land Commission should be in a position to take over more land from the big farms. There is an optimum amount of land which one or two men can farm. I understand it is in the region of 150 acres. This should be enough for any one person and his workman, depending on the farming he intends to do on it. Most of the farming done on the larger farms has not a big labour content. If by any chance a farm of 400 or 500 acres comes on the market, a person should be allowed to buy 150 acres, the remainder going to the Land Commission at the same price and being divided among the people who need it badly. I appreciate this requires a change of law. This idea may have been threshed out when the 1945 Act was going through, and probably it will be said that this is an attack on private property, fixity of tenure, free sale, et cetera. People will protest against it, particularly the democrats within the House. However, I have never heard anybody in the House protest when the private property of professional men such as doctors and lawyers was interfered with by the laws passed by this House. The position is such now that if there is a social need, the people demand that this need be met. In the West, there is a social need and it should be met in the way I have suggested. This may not be democracy as we know it, but I think it is true to say democracy has now changed its definition somewhat. Democracy now gives us but the right to decide what kind of socialism we shall have for ourselves in the future.

The Minister referred to Erin Foods. This link-up between Erin Foods and the Heinz organisation is very good news. Such an industry would provide a wonderful outlet for the produce of small farms in any part of the country and should go a long way towards solving the problem of those small farms that can avail of it. This whole industry for processing vegetables reflects great credit on the man who conceived the idea and who nursed it through its infancy. We should congratulate those who brought about the marriage and I hope that in future years this marriage will be a fruitful one.

This Budget also provides an increased guaranteed minimum price for pigs. This, too, will be welcome. But one wonders, in view of the history of pig numbers in this country and throughout the world — they seem to be going up and down like the puppet— how far we shall get with this. This is one industry in which there should be co-operation, co-operation between the producer and the processor, based on a contract of some kind or other. That should be of immense advantage to both. I understand that such a system works with the beet producers and the producers of corn in various parts of the country. We are coming to the time when it should be tried out in the pig industry so that the producer will have his guaranteed market and the processor will have his guaranteed raw material.

Milk is a very important commodity, particularly in the part of the country in which I live, because the land, it appears, is not suitable for anything else. The increases in price here must be of help, particularly to the people who are able to avail of the quality milk bonus. The grant which the Minister has offered for coolers may be only a small thing but it is of advantage to the small man, and it is also another break-through in this policy of encouraging the small man, even to the extent of helping him to mechanise his farm as much as possible and as much as it is worthwhile. There is another matter which may seem insignificant but it is a situation that exists for some farmers, that due to the bad surface on their roads, the quality of their milk is damaged by the shaking on the way to the creameries. No matter what they do, they are going to lose. This is a problem to which we shall have to advert through the other Departments concerned.

Another aspect of this milk problem which I wish to put before the House is in relation to the outlet for skimmed milk in the north-west. Although he has this outlet, the producer of milk there cannot get the full price for it which is to be got in other parts of the country. This is an aspect of the dairying industry which those who are responsible for it must face up to in the near future, so that the people to whom I refer will have the same advantages as the others.

I should like also to make reference to this incentive bonus which I think is an innovation and must excite interest. We have not heard much about it. It has been mentioned in relation to the question of two-tier milk prices, but it appears to apply to all productive activity on the farm. I hope it will be used widely and that it will go as far as the drainage problem. I hope that the man who wishes to drain his land will be considered for this bonus, which will contribute to the productivity of his land.

On the industrial side, there is the allocation of £250,000 to county development teams. That is a good thing. These teams are doing good work and this extra money will be of benefit. There is one point in relation to which I am not quite clear: will this money be used for the small industries we hope will be developed by the Department of Industry and Commerce?

In relation to free depreciation, the Minister has made it clear that this will not be available for mobile property. He mentioned, in particular, motor vehicles. That is a pity. There may be some good reason for it but, in applying it to the West and, at the same time, not applying it to motor vehicles, we are losing something. At all the seminars and symposiums about the West, we are always told that one of the reasons we are so backward is that we are remote: we are too far removed from the big consumer market on the east coast, too far removed from the ports on the east coast which have access to the British market; the goods we produce have so much added to them in transport costs and the raw materials coming in have so much added to them and transport costs, therefore, play a very important part in the competitiveness of goods produced in the West. It is a pity this free depreciation is not made available on motor vehicles.

Unemployment assistance has been criticised for various reasons. It is only fair to say it has met with criticism outside the House as well as inside it. The fact remains that it is very important to the man who will get it and who will depend on it throughout the year. No matter what view one takes, it will mean that he will have more purchasing power. Derating will add to that purchasing power and shopkeepers and business people will ultimately benefit by that increased purchasing power. Indirectly, then, they, too, will benefit as a result of this Budget.

There are various organisations trying to help the West and a great many people are doing very good work there. This Budget will encourage them. We hear too often about "Save the West". We are tired of the slogan. It is time it was changed to "Develop the West".

Hear, hear.

This budget goes a step further towards developing the West. I hope that trend will continue. Some people believe the West is the Cinderella of the Republic. That is not true. It is not such a bad place, but no one will live in it except those who are compelled to live in it. Deputy Haughey, as Minister for Agriculture, took an interest in the pilot areas. He encouraged them and helped them along. They are now proving their worth. As Minister for Agriculture and now as Minister for Finance, he has helped to foster industry in Strokestown; as a result of his interest, industry has survived and is now in a position to develop.

The West will benefit as a result of his first Budget as Minister for Finance. It is only right that we should be grateful to him for this and I hope that we will prove worthy of his generosity and his confidence.

This is the fifth day of this Budget debate and it is very difficult, therefore, to find anything original to say. There are a few points, however, I should like the Minister to clear up when he comes to reply. With regard to derating, there is a sliding scale in the case of valuations of £33. Will the first £20 of that £33 be completely derated? There is a certain amount of confusion about this.

An impartial assessment of this Budget does not lead one to believe that the benefits conferred are as great as some would have us believe. There is already derating of agricultural land because the agricultural grant covers a farmer up to 80 per cent of his valuation. As I said before, the small farmer is the backbone of this country and to me these aids look very like the rather futile exercise of locking the stable door after the horse has gone, because these aids are ten years too late. In the past three, four and five years, many thousands of our small farmers have left the land.

I disagree entirely with the dole for small farmers. They are the most hardworking section of our community. But the pig industry and the poultry industry are gone. Only last year I urged the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries to give help to the small farmer different from that given to the bigger farmer. In the past the greatest proportion of the moneys allocated for agriculture have gone into the pockets of the larger farmer. But giving the small farmer the dole will act as a disincentive to increased production. Some other type of income should be provided, such as the two-tier price system for milk, which was advocated by the Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association. That was a suggestion worthy of examination.

With regard to tourism, there is a big potential in farmhouse holidays. Many tourists from large cities and towns are anxious to spend a quiet holiday. In the town in which I live, very little help has been received from Bord Fáilte but a local development association has done splendid work. The farmhouse holiday scheme has been developed and this year 17 more farmhouses will be available to tourists. The Government could help in this farmhouse holiday venture. Any development here is bound to bring increased benefits to small farmers.

I listened last night to the Minister for Social Welfare speaking in relation to the benefits conferred on the small farmer. I want to say that this country is blessed by the fact that we have the best farmers, I would say, in Europe because any time a price inducement is offered — the most recent one was the in-calf heifer subsidy scheme—production has corresponded immediately but there is then the problem of providing a market. This is where the Government have completely failed. If we had a proper market for the farmers' produce we would not have the unrest and agitation that we had a few months ago from the members of the National Farmers Association. This year was an exceptionally hard year as far as the farmers were concerned. It was a time when the price of cattle, particularly the smaller and younger cattle, was at an all-time low level. I believe farmers have gone through a very difficult time in the past year. I hope that some of the benefits we are led to believe have been given to small farmers will eventually find their way into the pockets of the small farmer.

I listened to the Minister for Transport and Power today speaking about the £60 million aid provided annually by the Government towards agriculture. This was also referred to by the Minister for Social Welfare last night. I should like to ask any Deputy or any Minister in the Government what amount of that £60 million finds its way into the pockets of the farmers of this country. I should like to warn the Government at this stage that in rural Ireland today the population is dying and going at a rate never before equalled in the history of the country. I come from a constituency that is largely a rural area where there are farmers, road workers, forestry workers and creamery workers. I am also a member of a local authority. The number of people that I have had in the past six months trying to find employment in forestry or road work is alarming.

I asked the Minister for Lands today when he would find it possible to divide two holdings in a part of my constituency among the small farmers adjoining those two farms. In all, the acreage of the two holdings is 214. Does it not seem ridiculous that those two holdings have been the property of the Land Commission for the past two years and that over the fence from those two holdings there are a number of small farmers who are drawing unemployment benefit. I cannot understand for the life of me how it is that when the Land Commission acquire land they cannot set about immediately dividing it among the uneconomic holders in the area. This, to my mind, is a way in which the standard of living of the small farmer could be improved — to divide the land and place him in a position to support his wife and family.

I have heard it said here that the imminence of the local elections had a certain amount to do with the presentation of this Budget. Knowing the Minister as I do, I am inclined to agree with that suggestion. I believe that the Budget has conferred some benefits on old age pensioners who are, to my mind, the weakest section of the community. They have got, I am glad to say, an increase of 5/-. I have no doubt that this increase will find its way into the pockets of the old age pensioners but the old age pensioners were misled by the Minister 12 months ago. Every Deputy here was swamped with appeals from those old age pensioners to make representions to the Department of Social Welfare on their behalf. It was annoying to find, as I did in at least one case, an old age pensioner living in a small corrugated iron-roofed house free of rent deprived of the 5/increase. To my mind this pensioner was completely destitute. I do not like quoting individual cases here but I give that as an example of the many old age pensioners who were deprived of the 5/- increase.

Even though the small farmers have benefited to a certain extent there is nothing in this Budget that will ease the unfortunate housing situation. Any member of a local authority will know that over the past 12 months or two years there has been practically a complete close down as far as the building of houses is concerned. In the area I represent on the Cork County Council there are people and families living in shocking housing conditions. They are sadly disappointed that there is not some extra provision made towards the building of houses in this Budget.

I should also like to refer to the case of the urban ratepayer and the small shopkeeper. I believe they are burdened and completely crushed out of existence by rates. There is no doubt that the small shopkeeper living on the side of the street is very disappointed with this Budget. I know of one case where a wife and her four children living on the side of the village pay £38 rates and her husband must support his family from London. The Government have a responsibility as far as they are concerned. I believe it is high time that something was done for people living in towns and cities particularly those small shopkeepers who have had their livelihood taken away by the introduction of the supermarkets.

I am glad the Minister for Health is here. A great problem that has confronted many members of local authorities and health authorities is the question of hospital accommodation. Many of our social welfare recipients, because the allowance provided by the State for them is not adequate to keep them in their own homes, have no alternative but to be accommodated in some institution. I believe that the great problem today is the fact that the dependency ratio is so high in this country. Our hospitals and institutions are full of old people. The middle-aged people have emigrated and the younger people and the older people are the only people left. Increased benefits to social welfare people would be a step in the right direction. The present system is penny wise, pound foolish. Coming back to the case of the small farmers, we have their problem in relation to roads. There are many farmers who have been waiting for two years — as a matter of fact, the applications are not being accepted now in the Special Employments Office.

I do not see how that could possibly be connected with the Budget Statement. It is purely departmental and administrative.

I should like to get from the Minister what the position is in relation to those grants because I should like to have the people on a waiting list for years facilitated by having the matter expedited. Some of them are very deserving but they have been kept waiting for years.

I should like also to draw the Minister's attention to the plight of small shopkeepers and small business people. They are in a very bad way because the livelihood of many of them has been taken away by the advent of the supermarkets. Further, I should like to get an assurance from the Minister that when the local elections have been held, we shall not have a supplementary Budget. This is something the people are asking down the country. It happened last year, and I hope we shall not have a repetition this year when the local elections are past. I hope the imminence of the local elections did not have as much to do with this Budget as we are led to believe. A Minister for Finance should come out, face the problems that confront the people and present an honest Budget, ignoring the imminence of the local elections. The sooner we have a Minister for Finance and a Government who are prepared to tackle the problems that confront the people the better. The sooner the better there is a realistic approach in relation to housing, water, sewerage, hospitalisation and social welfare. I hope the local elections did not have an influence on the Minister.

The Budget was so good they thought there was a catch in it.

This document which was read to us by the Minister for Finance consists of 73 pages, ranging over a wide field of Governmental activity——

Let us be always thankful to God for everything. I must confess the appositeness of that interruption escapes me.

If it were narrow, you would be worrying, too.

I think the Deputy from—where?—Donegal might contain himself until he finds out whether I am about to grumble about the size of the Budget Statement. I hardly had a sentence out of my mouth when, with the usual expedition, members of the Government Party proceed to interrupt me.

That is what is happening to the Fianna Fáil Party in Donegal at the moment. They are fighting among themselves.

That is understandable, of course, considering the kind of representatives the Fianna Fáil people in Donegal had the misfortune to send to the House. However, I have no doubt that in time the excellent people in that constituency will see the light and replace those Fianna Fáil members with people who are committed to the welfare of the people of that underdeveloped and sadly neglected area. Donegal is, of course, part of that vast district which constitutes the neglected areas of this country. It is an odd thing that the effects of this Budget will not bring any reliefs to the people of Donegal, despite the fact that they should get some relief from Fianna Fáil because they have been so consistently misled by that Party and yet have supported that Party so consistently over a long number of years. One would have thought the ordinary laws of gratitude and compensation would have prevailed. But not at all. They, in common with the rest of the people of the country, have been the victims of political cynicism, nothing more, nothing less.

A good Budget.

A good Budget it is most assuredly not.

Why did you vote for it?

A good Budget is a Budget that brings solace and prosperity to the people of this country but we have had such a succession of disastrous impositions by this Government that any little glimmer of relief at all is hailed as if it were a new dawn of economic prosperity. Five shillings for the old age pensioners. Do you tell me that is a good Budget? The Government had to do something, of course, to try to retrieve the betrayed trust of the many foolish old age pensioners who voted for their nominees and who last year were put under the very distinct impression, as indeed were we Members of the House, that they would get an increase of 5/- a week. Not one in 50 got the increase. As was demonstrated here by Deputy James Tully, old age pensioners who had the fortune to own the bed, the frame of the bed on which they were lying, were deprived of the 5/-: they did not qualify because they were deemed to have an income by virtue of the fact that the bed was valued at 1/- a year. Something had to be done to correct this grotesque but essentially true image of Fianna Fáil.

What has been done for the old age pensioners in this so-called good Budget? Five shillings a week. When does it start? In August — not now, not next week, not next month, but next August if they should live so long. Live old age pensioner and you will get the usual mean and miserable dollar. We are told this is a good Budget and that we voted for it. If we had not would we have been voting against giving the old age pensioner 5/a week more? Deputy Cunningham is very jejune in his approach if he thinks that kind of interruption is to have any point, when one considers that at the moment 5/- hardly represents more than one ounce of tobacco for an old age pensioner, or a few cigarettes for a person who smokes. So far as my recollection goes from when my acquaintance with such places was more frequent than it now is, it would not buy very much of the spirituous stuff. Will it buy a glass of decent whiskey for an old age pensioner? Of course it will not. How many pints will it buy, especially now after the increase in the tax on drink? After the publicans have finished with the increase in the tax on drink, how many pints will it buy?

How much will it buy in terms of bread and butter, milk, sugar, tea, and any of those things? Five shillings! You should be ashamed of yourselves talking about 5/- and your good Budget. I have said time and time again that any Minister for Finance should be ashamed of talking about 5/- in connection with old age pensioners. This is something one would give away to a child. There are some school-going children today who get more pocket money than the old age pensioners receive from this beneficent State.

Let us go on to consider what I was beginning to say when I was interrupted in so disorderly a manner by a man who is the Acting Chairman of Dáil Éireann when the occasion demands it.

And chairman of the inter-Parliamentary group.

Let us keep it on a domestic plane.

He was also chairman of Donegal County Council and he resigned because someone did not get a house.

Order! Deputy S. Dunne.

As I was saying, this document is in its way a kind of minor work on economics. The first criticism I want to make of it is one which I have been making on occasions such as this since I became a Member of the House, that is, the incomprehensibility of the terms used in many parts of the Budget Statement. Is it good enough that in matters of such great importance as we are dealing with here, which have to do with the very existence of the country, those matters should be discussed in words and phrases that are Greek — aye, even less understandable than Greek —to the average man in the street?

The first quarter of this document consists of extensive dilations upon all kinds of things such as capital expenditure — a phrase which is readily understandable to most, I assume— and it goes on into a kind of labyrinthine jungle of terms used by economists. It often strikes me that they invented a language whose sole purpose is to baffle, bemuse and bewilder the common people of the country. Within these thickets of prose which few understand, one will find the odd phrase appealing to the workers to work harder.

In common English.

In common English, of course. That message must be got across: "You are not doing enough". It does not matter about the Gresham Hotel and Taca with which I will deal at some length, not perhaps tonight, but which I intend to deal with on another occasion. The idea is: "Let us fasten on the workers because they are so obvious to everyone." When the workers stop work and there is a strike, they become the butt of lectures, sermons, abuse and some condemnation. At all times they are made out to be the villains of every industrial piece. Of course, this is all a device used by the Government and by those who support them, by the Establishment or those who might be generically described as the Irish Establishment, this new sector of our society which consists of monopoly patriots. Other countries have monopoly capitalists but we have monopoly patriots. Indeed, monopoly capitalism very often has its origins in what is called the right of inheritance and we have got monopoly patriotism by this so-called right of inheritance. I remember some years ago hearing of an old farmer who went to a solicitor to make his will in a small rural town. The solicitor asked: "What do you want to do with your property?""Well, sir," he said, "I think I will leave the land to the eldest, and I will leave the stock to the daughter, and I will leave my Dáil seat to the youngest."

We have this situation and no reference at all is made by Government spokesmen to the responsibility for the economic conditions of this country which rests primarily upon those who control the organs of production, upon those who control credit and upon those who control wealth. The people who control those three elements are most definitely and assuredly not the workers. They are easily identifiable and can be described as the Establishment, as I have described them. They court the Government. At the moment they court Fianna Fáil and I am quite certain they would court any other Government. They are encouraged by Fianna Fáil. They are given authority, position, power and, indeed, it can be said that Fianna Fáil are now the mouthpieces of this element in our society. They are the mouthpiece of the element who control the wealth and the sources of production. Upon that section of our society, the Establishment, consisting of the Government and the people I have described, must rest the responsibility of seeing that we have a country which is fit for people to live in.

In my view, this Budget does not have the impact of the bite of a horsefly on the essential and fundamental problems which face this nation. It is based upon the concept that there must always be people who can exploit the masses and the rest of the people, that God ordained it so. We dispute that. We do not think it is any ordinance of Divine Providence that there must always be those who are trodden upon, those who are treated in the manner in which, for instance, the old age pensioner is treated and the manner in which a person on a very low fixed income is treated, the manner in which the underpaid worker is treated or, indeed, the small farmer about whom we have heard a great deal over the past 12 months or so. We do not think it right that that situation should continue to exist. We think it exists because this Government, as this Budget clearly demonstrates, accept the proposition that a society which is described by economists as laissez faire is the proper kind of society for the Irish people.

It was not for this kind of Budget that so much effort and toil was exercised by the people of this nation over the years that have gone by. It may very well be said that we have made some progress but it is progress which has come our way by dint of international economic forces and largely by accident. I remember, some years ago, trying to figure out in my own crude, unlettered way how it was that there seemed to be such a surplus of money in the country. There did not appear to be any great development of industrial activity. Unemployment seemed to be increasing, as it is now. The only answer I could find was that we were enjoying the overspill of European prosperity which was apparent at the time. I think that is the situation in which we have been living and have been fooling ourselves. Anybody who has thought otherwise has been fooling himself.

The first piece of folly which came to our notice — I claim, with all due modesty, to be the first person to draw to the notice of this House that it was a piece of folly — was that tale of mystery and imagination, the First Programme for Economic Expansion, followed, of course, by the Second Programme for Economic Expansion. At that time, the Government produced a document which, it was claimed, had inherent in it the answers to all the economic problems we were facing. Not many people read the document, any more than many people read the Second Programme for Economic Expansion or read the Report on Full Employment or the NIEC reports. I wonder how many have read this document which we got this week, the White Paper on European Communities? I know well—nobody knows it better— that the Members of this House are given scarcely enough time to read their letters, let alone to read weighty documents of this kind. It is a matter to which I hope some enlightened administration in the future will give some attention. This House is a legislative organ but it is not, in fact, to any great degree, much more than a letter-writing academy.

This document has a bearing upon the Budget. It describes the conditions upon which the Common Market operates. I have not had a chance to go through it. I doubt, if I had a chance, that I should be able fully to absorb all that is in it, being as limited as anybody else in Dáil Éireann in matters of this kind. I doubt very much if there are many in the country who can speak with authority on many aspects of it, either. It is in this euphoric condition of economic ignorance that we have been proceeding— wishful thought. Wishing should be the theme song of this Government — do you remember the song Wishing?— because that is all they have indulged in.

There has been no plan. Not alone has there been no plan but they have made a kind of a boast of the fact that they have no plan. It is to be found in several of the documents which I had to peruse — not an enjoyable recreation at any time. I found several statements both by NIEC and the Government that in no circumstances was the particular document— whether it was an NIEC report or the Report on Full Employment — to be regarded as a plan. The Government are completely planless, which brings me back to a thought that, some years ago, the former Taoiseach, who is nothing if not an able politician — he has possibly one of the most acute political brains we have had in this country: there is nobody with whom I could ever compare him for political ability apart from the late Deputy Norton: he has an antenna for the way political winds are blowing— talked about going to the left. How many remember that? Why, I remember a time when the mention of that phrase would be used to summon the mob and to secure that you were thrown over O'Connell Bridge into the Liffey. Any such things as a planned society would be regarded as synonymous with charging down a street in Barcelona, torch in hand, intent upon setting fire to the nearest sacred edifice. We are talking about these things now.

There is one thing which cannot be stopped, which cannot be prevented, that is, the advance of enlightenment. Thanks be to God that the advance of knowledge is something that cannot be stopped. People's minds will be inquisitive. They will inquire, read, find out and begin to make up their own minds. Of course, as time has gone by, it has been perfectly obvious to those of us who have lived over the past 25 to 30 years that there has been a great advance in the thinking of young people, particularly. People have taken to a re-examination of old shibboleths and have thrown them aside. They have taken to a re-assessment of Irish history, which is a very necessary thing, let me tell you, and, as time goes on, it will become more able and analytical and, as it does, there will be some queer tales to be told.

However, this has been happening and, to relate it to what I was saying about the former Taoiseach, I would suggest that the former Taoiseach sensed this and felt he must make some gesture towards this new idea and, in his best rousing and rasping manner, he announced a quick left turn, but there was no left turn. If anything, the turn was in the other direction. The result of it all now is that we have a Government in power who, to some extent, claim to have the youngest Cabinet in Europe, though one would not think so by the activities of some of them. Without wishing to be unkind, I sometimes fear that I can discern symptoms of premature senility in a number of the members of the Government. Be that as it may, one has to be charitable and not mention too many names, as my learned colleague from my constituency would say.

Deputy Gibbons spoke tonight. Let me say, in passing, that he makes an excellent speech. He had it to say that democracy gives us the right to decide what kind of socialism we shall have for the future. There was in that a great deal of truth. It certainly shows that at least one member of the Fianna Fáil Party is thinking about what the facts of life are in the modern world in which we live. Whether you like it or not, that is the road upon which the sophisticated kind of societies which have developed in Western Europe are being forced. Poor James Connolly and James Larkin, God rest them, were branded as anti-Christ when they talked about that.

However, to get back to the Budget, because I do not want to impose on the patience of the Chair, I should like to talk about the facility with which the various proposals were placed before the House. First of all, the increase of 5/- which I have sufficiently categorised for what it is, a thing of no account: I do not think there will be many members of the Fianna Fáil Party, though there may be some, who will have the hardihood to write to old age pensioners whom they know to tell them about this 5/- increase and explain the details to them. I received from County Kilkenny a postcard which tells its own tale. It is outside my constituency but then that may be explicable, too. It is an anonymous card and says:

Would you inquire by question are there any relief from the means test, any modification, for non-contributors, in this Budget?

It is signed "A Pensioner". The Minister can answer that if he wishes. There are not any, of course.

This is a card which was written by an old age pensioner, addressed from Kilkenny and posted in Waterford city. Why was it anonymous? It was because that person was afraid that if he signed his name to it, the investigation officer would come after him and take from him the few miserable shillings he has. Everybody who deals with old age pensioners knows that what I am saying is the truth. The great fear existing in the minds of old age pensioners is the fear of losing the few shillings which stand between them and the cemetery—it used be the workhouse but now it is the cemetery; the workhouse has been removed to shorten the journey. That is the fear that exists in the minds of old age pensioners, the really down-trodden people, the oft-rejected by their own in the cruel way of the world, the unwanted waiting for death. That is the legacy this administration has bequeathed to the old age pensioner.

A government with a true acceptance of their responsibility to the aged, even if they were in such a tight trap financially that they could not pay more than a small amount by way of pension, could at least take some of these investigators by the neck and say to them: "Look, you are dealing with the real people of this country and anything you have to eat, anything you are wearing, you owe to them. The house you are living in was built by those people with their sweat and their blood and many of them died from exposure and as a result of their efforts to do so, and treat them with some degree of humanity". They are not treated with humanity. That is what is to be learned from that card.

I want to ask the Minister for Finance, whom I do not regard by any means as an ogre, although he has been so depicted by certain sections of our population in the past, to give his attention to the manner in which the payment of this 5/- increase will be administered. I recall during the days of the inter-Party Government— and here again the passage of time and a sense of enlightenment is going to bring a light of reality, and is already beginning to do so, as to the achievements of those years—a Labour Minister instructing those in his Department to administer the law with humanity. He said that the law was made for use by the people, that God did not create people simply to make them amenable to what is written down in statute books, that the law was a mechanism to secure modes of behaviour and above all, and in all things there should be humanity.

I want to ask the Minister to apply the same attitude and in so far as it is possible for him to do so to try to inject a similar feeling into some of the members of his Cabinet. With some it would be utterly hopeless: time will deal with them, as it inevitably does. It might be possible for him to impress upon those who have not completely lost touch the need to deal with the aged and with what are described in that cold phrase "the social welfare classes"—a phrase which I hate to use —not always in strict accordance with the letter of the law but rather in accordance with its spirit.

The whole economic picture has been touched upon by the Minister in his very lengthy Budget speech. It is true that most people who understand the problem, those to whom I have been talking—and as one who only meets the scholars, I have to take their word for it—say that increased production is one of the basic needs if we are to secure a higher standard of living. There can be no dispute about that; there can be dispute about how the fruits of production are to be divided. This is the essential question. Is it to be thought that all the energies of this nation are to be harnessed and speeded up simply for the greater glory of the Establishment to which I referred earlier? If it is, I am opting out from participating in that idea.

We have never achieved in Ireland a situation in which it could be said that the workers are receiving a just wage. We may have been in the position, and possibly are, of saying that that would be true in relation to some isolated sections of particular operatives but at this moment the average earnings, including overtime earnings, of an industrial worker, for instance, are £12 per week. This is not a propagandist guess; it is a cold, factual figure produced by the agencies which are established to discover such things. I do not think anybody will argue that is sufficient. That is extravagant of me because there are some who will argue that it is enough; I know there are some who would argue that even half that would be too much for workers. I know that mentality is represented but, thank God, only to a very minute degree, even in this House. But £12 per week to the ordinary person in itself is a demonstration of the inadequacy of the social system under which we live.

The whole trend of population referred to in the Budget seems to be inexorably citywards. Certainly, there is an apparently frantic urge upon great numbers of people to get as far away as they can from the land of Ireland. This is not entirely a peculiarly national problem; it seems to be found in most countries. I suppose it is difficult to expect that young people, their imaginations fired by adolescents and by stories of the bright lights and the better life beyond the hills, will not gravitate towards the cities and towns, but it is undesirable, because in the heel of the hunt, as we all know, such people when they do leave the land and go to work elsewhere in the towns and, as happens in this country, to work in the large cities of England, experience the disillusion with that kind of life and the frustrations it brings and inevitably they come back to their origins. They want to come home and live in the countryside.

How far Government policy can affect what seems to be a natural process is debatable but there is an obligation on the Government to encourage people to remain on the land. Is encouragement being given by this Budget? I do not think so. Such things as a fractional remission of rates is not, in my view, to be represented as a serious contribution to this grave problem.

I mentioned in another place—and Deputies will be familiar with this fact —that since 1926, one million people have left Ireland and that at a time when the inducements to go were not, perhaps, as great as they are now. It seems that with the development of technology and improvement of living standards in the cities, the temptation to young people to leave the rural areas will increase rather than otherwise and that position being as it is, there devolves upon the Government of the day a very grave responsibility to ensure that the country will not fall a victim to the fate which now seems so obviously to be staring us in the face, that is, nothing more or less than a vast pasturage, with here and there a large conurbation.

This particular concern is a grave one, made all the more grave by the imminence of the Common Market. The Common Market has been widely advertised here as a great opportunity for us to develop, as something in fact if one were to believe all the encomiums about it, that will bring a golden age—to use a phrase used by the Minister for Finance in another context when he said that the Irish economy was entering upon a new golden age. This is the kind of prospect the Common Market is represented as being to us. Of course, there is no certainty that this is so at all. Farmers have been told, and I think by people who have not really given much thought to the problem, that no matter whose lot is improved, they will be better off, that this is a great chance for the farmers.

Reading this document, the White Paper, which we have not yet had time to masticate, let alone digest, Members will see that the Common Market can mean quite the reverse for the Irish farmer. Instead of prosperity, there appears to be in it evidence of a positive danger to the agricultural community. Bad and all as we are, we might be worse off. For instance, it is provided, I understand, under one of the regulations of the Treaty of Rome, as interpreted by the Commission, which is, in turn, an organ of the Council of Ministers—one would nearly need a map to follow the ramifications of organisation that exist in regard to this body and the maze of complexities which it implies, so far as the manner in which they handle various economic problems is concerned—that aids to agricultural production relating to acreage, prices, quantities and so on would be regarded as incompatible with the organisation of the Common Market and should therefore be automatically prohibited.

In other words, guaranteed prices which farmers now—I shall not say enjoy—have, might very well disappear and the produce of their toil could have to go into this vast market in competition with the produce of farmers from other countries which have had nine years of membership of the Common Market already and nine years' experience of intense competition, which, naturally, in order to exist in that time, has made them sharpen their methods as well as their wits. The Irish agricultural community going as it were red raw into such a situation need not, and should not, be misled into an absolute confidence that the day the Common Market becomes a reality their condition will be made immensely prosperous. It is by no means certain.

So far as the industrial community are concerned the facts are there. They speak for themselves. We have the example of the motor industry. This industry, as we know, employs some 3,000 to 4,000 people. It is said that with the disappearance of the tariffs those 3,000 to 4,000 people will no longer find work in the motor assembly industry because the cars will be driven off the boats on to the streets and up to the taxation office. The statements after dinner in various hostelries up and down the country made by the Government indicate that there will be arrangements for retraining and redundancy. I want to ask what has been done up to now regarding this? As far as we can see nothing has been done at all. There has been a lot of talk and no action.

The Budget Statement makes reference to the European Economic Community, commonly known as the Common Market. That is why I avail of the opportunity to make those references of mine. On page 59 of the Budget Statement the Minister for Finance had this to say:

The Government regard competition as the most effective way of guarding against excessive profit margins.

I think the last man to give expression to that was probably Gladstone because it represents the kind of mentality which dates from that age. One would have thought that the notion that free competition would bring a natural balance was long dispelled from the minds of rational men. That does not seem to be the case so far as members of this Government are concerned. The point I want to make above all in my remarks is that in the Budget the Cabinet show no appreciation whatsoever of the fact that unless we make immediate preparations for a planned economy we run dangers which are truly incalculable. We run the danger of going into a highly sophisticated and highly organised cartelised Europe.

We seem to be only talking about making the beginnings of preparations. This is not good enough. This occasion should have been availed of by the Minister to announce concrete steps to prepare the nation for what is ahead of us. Surely the obligation is on the Government to do this. It may be said that the Common Market was not an issue and has not been an issue at elections. That is beside the point. The Common Market will dominate the lives, as far as we can see, of those of us who are now on the earth and if we are not equipped to survive it is just too bad. What the Redcoats did in days gone by will be as nothing to what the effect of free trade will be.

We will give it to them in Castlebar.

That is the kind of attitude we adopt—a Castlebar sort of ballad. We will need to meet the situation not by singing ballads and harking back but by plenty of hard work. We will have to put our minds to what is needed. We have not a mind in Government because it is not a Government who believe in a planned economy. They believe in loose talk, what should be, what might be and what is going to happen in the future but no positive blueprint as to what is to be done to harness the country to meet the harsh reality.

I have touched on something which I do not think I could touch on too often, either here or elsewhere. I appeal to Deputies to tell their people the need for communication, the need for the people to understand, to give them the chance of understanding what is going on in the economy of the country, what the country is facing, the need to strip the problem of all this confusing verbiage and to present the facts simply, the need for a massive campaign to inform the public in relation to the economy of the country. We should present the facts to them as far as we can in relation to the European Economic Community.

The Minister for Finance also in his Budget speech touched on the question of an incomes policy. In any society which lays claim to be dedicated to the ideal of justice for all an incomes policy, that is a policy which consists of a formula which in turn predetermines a method whereby the incomes of various sectors of society are related, is an absolutely essential thing. It is not an easy thing to achieve. I do not know if it has been achieved in any country in the world. I have failed to find any country where it has been achieved. It is an end which must be striven towards. It is unreasonable to think that those engaged in the hard grind of industry—need I add those are the workers, whether they be in the fields, the workshop floors, the streets, transport or offices—it is unreasonable to think that this huge mass of people will undertake greater and greater burdens, just for the sake of carrying the load. There must be, in commonsense, the promise of greater reward. In the past it had been the great sin of the capitalist system, as we have known it, and indeed whatever was before the capitalist system and every system we have known up to now. No doubt this applies to other systems—authoritarian and dictatorial—in such Communist countries where bureaucracy seems to be the only answer they have to the problems. In every country this question has been at the very nub of the problem of human degradation and the struggle for human uplifting.

An incomes policy is not inviting in its title but it is something to which more than lip service is due. I do not feel confident that we have reached a stage of analysis of our economic situation which would enable us to say, for instance, next week what the relationship should be as between the fruits of the labour of one section of the people or another. I realise full well that it will take a lot of time to reach that condition of things. But I do say it is essential that that should remain in the forefront of our minds and that every effort should be made by whatever means are available to us to secure that end.

The Minister in his Budget speech also referred to the question of banking legislation. I hope this gives me an opportunity of coming to a very important aspect concerning the basis of our economic plight. Is it good enough, I wonder—indeed, I do not wonder; I merely ask the question in a rhetorical sense because my mind is made up on it—that the resources of a nation, which are needed for the development of the country and for the welfare of the people, should be placed, as it were, at the complete disposal of a small group of people who, however well intentioned they may be, must none the less be motivated, not by the things which concern a parliament but by the idea of making the maximum amount of profit they possibly can by way of interest on deposit? Is it just that in so doing, they can restrict credit, that they can bring considerable hardship on many people in the community by such restriction of credit?

I know that in theory there is a Central Bank which is said to lay down policy guidelines in a very general and vague way in matters of this kind; but I am not talking about that aspect, that relatively minor aspect, of the problem. I am talking about the need of a Government to be able to call upon credit, and the right of the Government in the name of the people to be able to call on credit. By that, I mean money and its use in the interests of the people at any time. We have not yet, apparently, accepted that principle here. The common good is not yet triumphant in Ireland. The common good is something subscribed to by writers very often in flowery prose, and, indeed, poems are written about the rights of the ordinary people, but the basic essential, the control of credit, for instance, is not one that is accepted in this country as yet as being a desirable governmental activity.

In many other countries it is. We in the Labour Party feel, and I feel, that it has been touched upon slightly in this Budget. I want to take the opportunity of saying that no policy of any Government can be fully effective in tackling problems which beset the country until this problem is tackled adequately and until the common good, the good of the greatest number, is made the measuring stick by which credit, and the issue of credit, are determined.

The Minister also touched on the possibility of the decimalisation of currency. This might seem a minor matter to many, but a change of methods of exchange is of very considerable importance, as we have seen from its progress in Britain. It is another example, of course, of the fact that there has been a complete recanting of the Fianna Fáil dogma that we could go it alone and that it did not matter what Britain did, that we were a nation completely independent of her. Years have shown that there is a degree of economic interdependence between these two islands which at times calls into question, amongst those who think about it, political activities over the last century or more. Notions and ideologies which were adumbrated as eternal verities and absolute truths have been pronounced as so much air.

It was thought by many of us— I thought so when I was a chap and before I got sense—that if we were left to ourselves alone — sinn féin amháin — we would not have to bother about what went on in the outside world and that we could live on what we produced ourselves. Poor Arthur Griffith believed it and many others as well. Has it not been shown that this was — to put it mildly — a complete misconception? Mind you, it is a pity it is so because, when one loses these illusions, one loses a great deal of one's life and youth. Those of us who did not make too much of a boast of our love for country and about our republicanism were those of us who, when we did open our mouths about it, were speedily put into a place of seclusion and nobody listened to us anyway. But the principal advocates of separation at one time were the founding fathers of Fianna Fáil and has the wheel not swung the full circle when they, voluntarily, went over last year —or was it the year before—and surrendered the shreds of our economic independence in Downing Street?

Decimilisation of currency is just another step along that road, an inevitable step, it would appear. The Minister has said he proposes to take steps, next year, to begin examination of the position in relation to that matter. I hope, when the day comes that the currency is changed — I merely say this as an aside — some greater artistic talent and thought will be given to whatever is depicted on the face of the currency than we see on the existing currency.

Despite all the warnings contained in the NIEC examination of the Second Programme for Economic Expansion —and I hate to use the term, because it is really a piece of bluff, a colossal piece of impertinence and bluff and only for use at chapel gates, perhaps, as I mentioned before — the Minister said in his Budget speech that the outlook is promising. He is a very agile young man and is not to be blamed, I suppose, for making the best of a bad job. He has gone through his own share of suffering in recent times and one does not want to be too hard on him; but I would ask him not to impose too much on us by saying that the outlook is promising. The only promise existing in this country are the promises of politicians preparing for local elections: I would emphasise, Government politicians — and we know what validity they have.

I do not want to go back on things past, because it is a cruel and, indeed, pointless exercies——

It hurts.

There is no mention here of drainage of the Shannon, not a word, and I assure the Chair I shall not pursue it but, to say that the outlook is promising at this stage in our lack of development, is imposing on the people, and nothing less, because this tale of mystery and imagination, the Second Programme for Economic Expansion, estimated there would be an increase of something like 7,000 jobs per year. In fact, there has been a re-estimation and the figure has been reduced. In practice, of course, it was found that this was complete distortion and the actual figure of the number of new jobs provided was merely a fraction of that 7,000.

The green-covered document called "Report on Full Employment"— and green, you know, with a significance for the readers, I suppose: to symbolise the readership — says that to attain full employment by 1980 — which is a long time away—we must have 11,500 new jobs created per year. The NIEC Report, which examined the second programme of mystery and imagination says that the most we can hope for this year is 1,000 more employed. What reality is there, then, in talking of full employment, because there is a certain amount of special pleading in all these documents which go out; they do endeavour to create — despite the fact that the membership of the NIEC is representative of a number of different interests in the country — the impression that this is the Government speaking. It is an impression which should be dispelled. Very often, where criticism might usefully be made by the NIEC, as a body independent of the Government, it is not made, quite apart from the kind of language used, the confusing language to which I referred. New jobs then, this year, according to the experts, will not exceed 1,000 and the Minister for Finance says the outlook, in the face of that, is promising.

On the other side, even if these 1,000 news jobs do appear from somewhere or other — and there is no guarantee they will — there will be the vast annual emigration, which will reduce still further the number of people in employment. There will, it appears be— and I am not hoping this will happen; I am dreading that it will happen — the unemployment created by the full impact of the Free Trade Agreement and by the steps which may be taken by Irish industry, a great deal of which considers, as far as I can see, that the only way you can secure greater efficiency is by creating unemployment, and that the only way you can secure greater production is by sacking one man and making the other fellow do his own work and that of the man who has been sacked. That does not apply to all industries, however. We have had in one semi-State Body possibly one of the most progressive and enlightened industrial brains to be found anywhere in Europe. I refer, unashamedly, to General Costello.

But there is that mentality abroad. It stems from the years of protection, when these so-called industrialists were the darlings of the Fianna Fáil Party, when they were performing the functions which the younger guard are now placing on the shoulders of the new cosa nostra,“our thing”.

What does it mean?

It is a Mafia expression; it means "our thing", but if the Deputy is here tomorrow, I shall go into it in greater detail.

Deputy Dunne, in his glasshouse days, would know something about that.

There are enough of them around this House indulging in that kind of activity.

The Minister for Finance had the hardihood to suggest that the outlook for 1967 is promising. He goes on to say on page 7 of his Budget Statement:

On the external front, the Free Trade Area Agreement will assist the expansion of exports, no longer impeded by the British import surcharge.

I suppose you cannot blame him for trying but that is an effort to retrieve what, to my mind, is an impossible situation. Far from assisting the expansion of exports, the likelihood is that this country will see a great importation of goods produced from across the water more cheaply than we could produce them here, to the detriment of employment here and to the detriment of the national economy. I would suggest that is a far more realistic appreciation of what the Free Trade Area Agreement connotes than this kind of airy-fairy wishful thinking the Minister goes on with.

This step taken by the Government of dropping tariffs at this particular moment in time leaves us with little choice but to go into the Common Market. There are those who argue that membership of the Common Market for Ireland need not be an inevitable step. But it does seem to me we are not left with any other alternative, although some people make the argument that even if Britain is in, we need not necessarily go in. But there is not much realism in that because of the extent to which we are tied to the British economy.

We were going to go it alone, you know.

I know that was said all right——

The ex-Taoiseach said we would go it alone.

——at the cumann meetings. They would believe anything. The ex-Taoiseach is not in the House, so we will not go into what he said at that time. In any event, it does not seem we are left with any alternative but to go along, as I was saying when I was interrupted by my distinguished colleague. The newspapers today reported very considerable support for the British efforts to join the EEC by the continental trade union movement, which is a powerful element, although they expressed at the same time concern about Common Market arrangements as they affect labour.

I was reading some of the literature we get in our letterboxes concerning the Common Market. One of their productions indicates, perhaps not intentionally, that the provisions for the treatment of workers in the Common Market are nothing like what we might imagine them to be. The amount set aside in respect of redundancy and matters of that kind represents only a fraction of the amount which might be necessary. This is merely something I have read but it suggests to me some confirmation from what has been stated elsewhere — that far from the Common Market objective being the general improvement of the living standards of the 280,000,000 in Europe, its real objective is the establishment of a massive market to enable the great continental cartels to dispose in the most widespread possible way of their products, notably the cartels which exist in Germany and France. I am not in a position to judge that. I am not going to say whether it is right or wrong. There may be people in this country who are, and their comments on it would be very welcome. I only mention that the Common Market people in their own publication indicated, from my reading of it anyway, that things were far from right so far as the social activity of the Commission, as they call it, is concerned.

The Minister mentioned that Irish manufacturing industry unit wage costs went up by seven per cent compared with a rise of about five per cent in the United Kingdom. This comparison with the United Kingdom is again a spurious one. I remember looking at a discussion on Telefís Éireann in which a large number of people in the studio were talking about the green-covered document on full employment. One of the professors there talked about wages here being higher than in Britain. But it so happened there was in the audience a tradesman home on holidays from Britain, who was able to say that was not so. He said: "I can go to work in England and make sufficient there to send home to keep my family here. I make much more in England than I do here. The wages are much higher in England." This was a man actually doing it.

I want to relate that to what appears on page 8 of the Budget Statement where the Minister said that unit wage costs in Irish manufacturing industry were up by seven per cent compared with a rise of about five per cent in the United Kingdom. Thinking in terms of what that young man had to say, it means simply that a five per cent rise for an English worker represented much more in actual pounds, shillings and pence than the seven per cent rise the Minister complained about as far as the Irish worker is concerned. There we see another instance of special pleading and the fallacy of figures. The employment of percentages in the matter of wage negotiations has long struck me as being a device with only one purpose — to keep down the remuneration of the mass of the people.

The Minister refers on page 23 to market outlets as offering considerable prospects for Irish industry and producers — market outlets secured by the Minister as a result of trade agreements. We had the example of the Free Trade Area Agreement. Can anyone tell us what market outlets it provides which help industry in this country? Has the reverse not been the case? Quite apart from what arguments may be made in its favour, has it not proved to have been harmful to the economy? Was it not stated the farmers would benefit greatly before the end of the year? In fact, they did not. I hope to have an opportunity of expanding at some further length on this Budget tomorrow. I feel far more credit has been taken by the Minister and the Government for what it contains than is their due.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
Barr
Roinn