asked the Minister for Social Welfare what is the increase in the price of social welfare insurance stamps arising out of the charges mentioned in the Budget speech of the Minister for Finance; and when these charges will become operative.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Social Insurance Stamps.
44.
It is proposed to increase the rates of social insurance contributions from employers and employees from 1st January next but, as a final decision has not yet been taken as to the precise amount of the increase in each case, I am unable to give the Deputy the remainder of the information he seeks. I shall, however, make a general statement in regard to these matters when introducing legislation shortly to provide for the improvements in the social welfare schemes announced in the Budget.
Can the Minister give any indication of the amount in question?
If I did I might be off the mark because there are eight different categories.
How was it possible to frame the Budget figure if those details cannot now be given?
We might have a fairly accurate account of what the average was but when it is spread over eight different categories it is a different matter.
What is the overall figure?
I have not got it here.
Surely you have the overall figure?
I have not got it here.
The Minister has not got it but the Minister for Finance was able to frame his Budget despite that.
I will give it here when introducing legislation.
Surely if the Budget was framed on a particular basis and if the average was given to the Minister for Finance before he made his decision, the Minister for Social Welfare should be able to give that figure now? There was a lot of reference to the efficient manner in which the Budget was prepared. It now appears that a vital figure was never included.
I did not say there was.
Then let us have it. Why the secret?
Would the Minister say whether it is proposed to apportion the cost as to one-third and one-third between the employee and the employer?
That is a question I do not propose to answer now.
Will the employer and the employee bear the full cost and will the State bear no cost?
I should hope to have the proportion equal as between the employer and the employee.
Shame on you.
Question No. 45.
Why is the Minister trying to cod the House? A few minutes ago he said he did not know the figure. Now he says the figure will be proportioned between employer and employee.
Question No. 45. This will have to cease.
I have been trying for a long time to ask a question. I have been rather orderly for once. Did I understand the Minister to say he did not know the cost of what the stamp increase would be, that he did not know the amount of the total cost involved, that he did not know for certain how the cost was to be apportioned? If I misunderstood the Minister, will he now give me the correct figure?
He says employer and employee half and half. The State will not pay a penny.
It is now 40 to 60. The Minister for Finance says he is going to change it.
The cost of the extension of the employment period is one matter. The cost of the overall increase in the social welfare insurance scheme is quite another matter.
(Interruptions.)
The amount has been deliberately concealed.
If the Minister for Social Welfare would speak to the Minister for Finance, he would know the figure mentioned. If the Minister for Social Welfare has already revealed the figure to his colleague, the Minister for Finance, will be please ask him now to let the secret out?
The Budget was an absolute fake. As far as this figure is concerned, the Minister is not giving the full facts to the House.
(Interruptions.)
This is what the Irish Press correspondent described as the hallmark of class, faking the thing.
In other words, the Minister does not know. He should question his colleague. It is faked as the carry-over balance was faked and I will prove that later tonight.
Question No. 45.
The Minister for Finance says one thing and now the Minister for Social Welfare says a different thing. Will the Minister tell us whether it will cost the employer anything?
It has to do with what the whole figure is.
Will the Minister please answer Question No. 45?
(Interruptions.)
(Cavan): This is Question Time, not answer time.
This must cease. I have asked the Minister to answer Question No. 45.
The Minister should get the accountants of Taca to tell him what the figure is.
I have asked the Minister several times to answer Question No. 45. I cannot allow any further supplementaries. He has disregarded me just as the Deputy has.
He has insulted——
If the Minister does not answer, there is no good in my calling the questions.