asked the Minister for Transport and Power if, in view of the fact that, owing to the inability of CIE and licensed hauliers to provide an adequate road transport for livestock, the members of the cattle trade have been obliged at enormous cost to themselves to provide this service themselves, he considers it to be in the best interest of this most important industry that road transport of livestock be liberalised, or, alternatively, that he should grant licences to those who have supplied this very vital service for the past number of years.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Road Haulage of Livestock.
2.
I am aware that the carryings of livestock by road by CIE have declined substantially from about 257,000 in 1957 to around 136,000 in 1966. On the other hand, the carryings of livestock by licensed road hauliers have increased in the same period, from 659,000 to 1,210,000. Since then, I have eased the restrictions on the carriage of livestock for reward and practically all licensed hauliers may now carry cattle throughout the State regardless of the limitations on the area of operation specified in their licences. In addition, I announced recently that I am prepared to grant lorry weight increases to licensed hauliers.
Unless and until these extensive measures can be seen to be inadequate I could not grant further licences but, as I told the House in reply to questions earlier this year, I will keep under constant review the effect of the extensions in the scope of operation of licences which I have granted.
Can the Minister say if the mileage limitation is now removed in all cases?
Not in all cases, only in the case of people carrying livestock.
In all cases of livestock?
Yes.
Is the Minister aware that, in fact, a very large proportion of the livestock carried is at present being carried by illegal hauliers and it is a question of legalising this haulage? Apparently, they are the only people who know what to do and where to be in order to carry livestock. The cattle trade are very much in favour of this.
As the Deputy is aware, we have, in addition, arranged for the plating of lorries to remove odd lots of cattle at the end of fairs. The Deputy is aware of that. I have seen the Licensed Hauliers Association and the Livestock Traders Association—in the case of the Licensed Hauliers Association the date is April 23rd—and all the evidence we have got will be examined by officers of my Department and other Departments interested, in connection with the general study that is being made of road transport as a whole, with a view to preserving CIE as a valuable transport carrier of other kinds of goods and of cattle in so far as it is possible and with a view to seeing what can be done to reduce costs of road transport.
Is the Minister aware of the anomaly that, although he has extended the area over which these plated lorries operate for the carriage of livestock, if the licences were provisionally granted to residents in a town with a ten mile circuit for merchandise delivery, they cannot be purchased by, or transferred to, anyone who does not live within the original merchandise area, although the potential purchaser does not wish to use them for merchandise but wishes to use them only for the transport of cattle, and would the Minister consider facilitating the transfer of such licences?
We have already gone a fair distance in that inasmuch as we used only to permit transfers of a licensed haulier's licence, if it was not an all-Ireland licence, to another person living within 12 miles. We now transfer the licence to another person living in the total area for which the licence was given in the case of a haulier who wishes to sell his business. So we have made some progress in regard to liberalisation in that regard.
In view of what the Minister has stated, can we take it then that the activities of the Gestapo agents of CIE who frequent fairs and marts in order to catch these illegal hauliers will now cease?
I cannot deal with that question. It might be a question of infraction of the law.
I am sure the Minister appreciates that this question was put down by Deputy Gogan because of the many approaches made to him and to other Deputies in the Dublin area, both by the people in the cattle trade and by the people concerned in this type of haulage. I wonder would the Minister be prepared to meet a deputation of both parties at the same time, that is, the people in the cattle trade who want this type of haulage and who say it is the only suitable type, and the other people who are in this unfortunate position?
I have already met the Livestock Traders Association and the Licensed Hauliers Association.