Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 21 Nov 1968

Vol. 237 No. 6

Adjournment Debate. - Moy Drainage.

Mr. O'Hara

At Question Time yesterday I addressed the following Question to the Minister for Finance:

To ask the Minister for Finance if he is aware of the very serious damage caused by the recent flooding of the River Moy, despite the operation of the arterial Drainage Scheme; and what steps he proposes to take to remedy this situation.

The reply given to me by Deputy J. Gibbons, the Parliamentary Secretary, was as follows:

Arterial Drainage schemes are not designed to prevent all flooding — it would be entirely uneconomic to do so. The recent abnormal rainfall — 4 inches in 40 hours — produced flows exceeding the design capacity of the River Moy Scheme and led to some flooding of short duration. The improved channels functioned very satisfactorily and were able to clear the floods in two days in the worst hit areas; formerly this would have taken weeks.

After the Parliamentary Secretary gave me that reply the following debate took place:

Mr. O'Hara: Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that scores of people had to flee their homes, that crops, particularly potatoes were ruined as a result of the flood? Is he further aware that Ballylaghan Bridge on the main road between Foxford and Castlebar was flooded to a depth of 18 inches? I saw the flooding and the evacuation of the people. What steps does the Parliamentary Secretary propose to take to prevent this happening in the future?

Mr. J. Gibbons: The Parliamentary Secretary can take no steps whatsoever to prevent the incidence of extremely heavy rainfall but I would point out to Deputy O'Hara that this particular rain storm between 30th October and 2nd November was the worst in living memory; four inches of rain fell in 40 hours and this produced flooding not only in the Moy area but all over the West. I am aware of the losses sustained by the people, not only in the Moy valley but in the country generally and particularly in the West where the storm was most severe. The work done on the Moy Drainage Scheme proved very satisfactory indeed in coping with that rain storm because the flooded areas were cleared very rapidly.

Mr. O'Hara: May I point out to the Parliamentary Secretary——

An Ceann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a question to put?

Mr. O'Hara: Certainly. May I inquire from the Parliamentary Secretary that on this occasion, though it could easily have happened, there was no snow on the mountains? I admit the rainfall was extraordinary but is the Parlimentary Secretary aware that people have lost furniture, crops and everything and are living in terror, particularly in Foxford, Twomore, Meelick, Straide, Cloongee and Ballina, of a repetition of this flooding?

Mr. J. Gibbons: The Deputy must be aware that rainfall of this severity is very unusual. No similar rainfall has been recorded in that area for the last 80 or 100 years.

Mr. O'Hara: In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Parliamentary Secretary's reply — this is no laughing matter — I propose to raise the matter on the Adjournment of the House tomorrow evening.

Mr. J. Gibbons

So here we are. Act II.

Mr. O'Hara

I do not blame the Parliamentary Secretary for the rainfall at all. It so happened that on that occasion I was returning home from Dáil Éireann and I had to make several detours because the roads were flooded all over the place. I have travelled on the roads of Ireland for many years because of my business activities. I often took a truck from my home village of Coolegrane, near Foxford, arriving in Dublin at eight o'clock in the morning; but never in my life did I see anything like the floods in the Moy valley area on that occasion.

I know something about the history of this scheme. The Parliamentary Secretary can put his mind at ease immediately because I am not going to find fault with his engineering staff or himself, his gangers or his workers. My main reason for raising this matter on the Adjournment is in the hope that it will help the Parliamentary Secretary to realise that queer things can happen once in a while and that, perhaps, in consultation with his engineering staff, he may be able to learn a little bit from this debate.

The late Deputy Donnellan was Parliamentary Secretary for a period of years. Following his term of office the late Deputy Beegan took over. Deputy Gibbons, for whom I have the greatest respect, took over at a particular stage. I listened from time to time to Deputies in this House stressing the importance of arterial drainage in their parts of the country — the drainage of the Boyne, the drainage of some river down near Headford in County Galway and various other rivers. Let the Parliamentary Secretary learn this lesson from the River Moy drainage scheme. He knows as well as I know, because I am sure he checked with his advisers yesterday and today, that it is not just a matter of opening up the river to the side drains, to let in more lakes and streams, and everything will be all right. Many years ago I thought that if we could have the Moy drained everything would be all right in my part of the country. But I have land along the Moy River and I have made hay there. I have watched the rise and falls of that river for as long as I can remember.

Let me say that the work of technicians and engineers is one thing, but the Man above can upset an awful lot of calculations. Let me say further that when I was going out to Mass with my wife and children the storm was frightening. The most frightening thing I ever saw was the River Moy flowing down rapidly towards the two bridges in Ballina. The cathedral was in between. If the river had failed to go through the bridges the cathedral would have been flooded in five or ten minutes and the houses in Molloy Terrace would have been swept away. Many homes in the town of Ballina were flooded that night because of the operations connected with the River Moy scheme which every engineer and foreman and ganger and everybody else, including myself, thought was doing a great service for the people of the area. The net result of the scheme was to make the river come roaring down in such a way as to have caused tremendous damage. If there had been snow on the surrounding mountains, as could easily happen, and if the bridges were swept away, hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of damage would have been done. Lives could have been lost.

We do not know whether such events may happen in the future. I know that if the Parliamentary Secretary consults the engineering staff, all of whom are men of repute, they will say that such a thing could never happen again but how do we know? I personally saw the bridge at Ballylaghan under 18 inches or two feet of water and I saw many other areas also flooded. I do not want to score any points over the Parliamentary Secretary or anybody else but the lesson should be learned that in doing an arterial drainage job it is possible that great damage can be done even though the job is intended to benefit many people. Crops have been lost, homes damaged. People had to be evacuated. Ambulances came to the rescue. If in the future you have severe rainfalls coinciding with snow on the mountains great damage could be caused.

I want to warn the Parliamentary Secretary that my neighbours in Cloongee, Twomore, Straide, Meelick and Knockmore and in many other areas are, as small farmers, out of business; all their crops are lost. The original intention was to drain the Moy so that these people could make a living. I do not blame the Parliamentary Secretary for what has happened but I would ask him to come to Mayo and see things for himself so that he would realise that many of these small farmers and many of the workers in Ballina and people living along the Moy valley have lost so much that it will be impossible for them to get back on their feet unless the Parliamentary Secretary does something towards providing compensation for them.

Thousands of tons of silt have been carried downstream and the Parliamentary Secretary must realise that will create a serious problem for shipping in Ballina harbour in future. The force of the flood cut out the river banks and the silt was carried under the bridges and stacked up. The Parliamentary Secretary may feel that he can go ahead with drainage schemes in other parts of the country but the most important thing at present for the arterial drainage section of his Department is to go back and try to relieve the problem created as a result of this very heavy flooding in recent times.

No doubt many people will send in bills for damage to property. Fortunately, so far as I know, there was no loss of life. Ambulances and a fire brigade helped to evacuate the people and if the Parliamentary Secretary thinks I am exaggerating he can check the facts with Mayo County Council. I saw these things happening. This is the second occasion on which I have raised a matter on the Adjournment in my 10 years, approximately, in the House. I am not doing it for the sake of publicity or to score a point over the Parliamentary Secretary for whom I have the greatest respect nor over the engineers concerned with the Moy drainage scheme nor over anybody else. My main reason for raising the matter is to try to ensure that it will be a lesson to the Parliamentary Secretary, to the engineering staff and to all concerned and that they will realise that very serious damage can occur if they do not take into account that very heavy rainfall can occur now and then and, in addition, you can have heavy snowfalls with serious consequences resulting for the people in the areas where arterial drainage work is proceeding. I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to call together his staff to discuss this matter and, above all, to see that provision is made to compensate those who have suffered very seriously in this case.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance (Mr. J. Gibbons)

I agree with Deputy O'Hara that when a lot of rain falls it produces a lot of wet conditions. I have the greatest esteem for Deputy O'Hara and I look on him as a sensible and wise Deputy for most of the time. I admit, however, that he had some difficulty in dragging out the 20 minutes allotted to him on the Adjournment. He reminded me of a revivalist preacher because it was very difficult to know precisely what Deputy O'Hara wanted to get across but as far as I can understand him he wanted to convey the message that whatever the Board of Works people may attempt he believes that the Man above has greater power than any one in the Board of Works. I readily accept that.

I am sure Deputy O'Hara realises, as I have said, that when there is a severe rainstorm it inevitably leads to widespread flooding thereby causing a great deal of inconvenience. In every part of Ireland, including my own locality, severe flooding has occurred — not only of land but sometimes houses. It is only from County Mayo that we have an unreasonable demand made on the Office of Public Works to do something about this.

Since 1960 the Government have spent nearly £5 million on this problem. Since that time they have employed between 500 and 600 Mayo men in doing something about this.

Mr. O'Hara

Not all Mayo men; some of them were from Galway.

Mr. J. Gibbons

Anyway, they are all west of Ireland men and most of them are from Mayo. Deputy O'Hara will agree that this is not an inconsiderable thing especially when one considers that the Moy drainage scheme was by no means the most economical one that could have been carried out at the time it was carried out. It would have been far more economical to have tackled a scheme such as the Suir or the Boyne drainage schemes. It would have levelled a great deal more land, a great deal more land for agriculture but because of social conditions in the West, it was decided, and decided wisely in my opinion, that this great effort in the matter of arterial drainage should take place there.

As the Deputy knows, there has been a concentration of effort in the west of Ireland in relation to drainage and I do not think the Deputy, being the reassonable man he is, would contend that the Government have been remiss in this matter of the drainage of the Moy. Since the scheme was started almost 50,000 acres of land have been made available and improved and many of the acres that were flooded recently were not available at all beforehand. Deputy O'Hara spoke of the Cloongee and Ballylaghan areas. He will possibly remember that the normal winter condition of those areas was one of permanent flooding. I am glad to say that the farmers in these areas will benefit greatly from the scheme.

It is certainly inconvenient that land should be flooded but everybody else's land was flooded, too, including some of my own. I realise that there have been certain losses but it is difficult to accept that these have been widespread. I do not know of any crops remaining on the land at the present time. The mangold and sugar beet crops would have been lifted by now, if these crops are grown at all in those areas.

Mr. O'Hara

They are stored in the fields.

Mr. J. Gibbons

I think it is unwise of any farmer whose land may possibly suffer from flooding to leave crops in the fields. It is a common practice throughout the country to store certain crops in the fields where they are grown as a temporary measure but this is a very risky business on land that is subject to flooding and, while I sympathise with the farmers who incurred losses of this kind, I think it will serve as rather an expensive lesson for the future, especially as regards potatoes. It would be much better to store these on raised ground.

This flood that Deputy O'Hara has complained about was a freak flood. No drainage scheme designed so far by the Board of Works, and it is unlikely that any scheme that may be devised in the future, can guarantee the end of flooding. We are making available, through these drainage schemes, quite an amount of agricultural land. This objective has been achieved in the Moy valley. The only complaint from any part of the country is from the precise area where this effort is going on. There are other areas in which the farmers would like to have drainage done — areas in which losses are also sustained—but they realise that without some unimaginable resources these things cannot be tackled. Most farmers are quite sensible about it and while they may suffer considerable losses they realise that they have made considerable gains in improved land.

I cannot understand why Deputy O'Hara comes back to this House which made available almost £5 million for expenditure for the relief of flooding — although the engineers, the gangers and everybody else has done a good job — and says that the thing is not working and that it will not work. The facts are, very simply, that an excellent scheme has been carried out but there was a bloody awful storm and land was flooded as a result but, because there was an excellent drainage scheme recently carried out, the flood waters ran off rapidly and happily there was no loss of life or permanent injury to anybody.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 26th November, 1968.