asked the Minister for Education if he is aware of the hardship being caused to young ladies with high leaving certificate marks who fail the singing test at entrance examinations to teacher training courses; and what purpose this test serves.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Singing Test.
41.
Singing is a compulsory subject for all grades in national schools. Furthermore, in junior classes it forms an integral part of the teaching of other subjects, instruction being given by means of singing simple rhymes. For these reasons it is essential that a sufficient number of women national teachers be able to sing. Girl candidates who secure high grades at the leaving certificate examination may gain exemption from the singing test.
Has the Minister any idea of the actual feelings of the young ladies?
Oh, yes.
Has he any statistical information available of the number of young ladies who fail the examination as a result of their voices not being up to standard?
About ten per cent of the numbers taking singing.
Is this a compulsory test?
Yes.
Surely the idea is that the young lady should have a high tone in her voice? I fail to see the necessity for that.
Would the Minister say, as Minister for Education, if he is able to sing?
I am not.
He will be singing for his supper soon if he does not finish the dispute.
I am calling Question No. 42.
This matter is being treated with some levity by the House. Would the Minister not consider that in enforcing this regulation a number of young ladies are prevented from taking up a very suitable profession?
To get this thing into perspective, I want to say, first of all, only ten per cent of the women who qualify for the oral test fail singing. I am also concerned by the fact that this should be a compulsory sphere, as it were, in regard to teacher training. I have set up a committee of inspectors in my Department who will go into the whole question of singing and its position in relation to training. I am awaiting a recommendation from this committee. Having said that, and while I have an open mind in relation to the matter raised by Deputy Andrews, it is important that we should preserve some element of teacher training and singing is an important aspect of that. I would like to see it preserved but I have views that would indicate, somewhat on the line of what Deputy Andrews recommends, that the obligatory aspect might be eliminated.
Is the Minister aware that, although ten per cent is the actual number who fail, a number of young ladies do not bother going to the examination since they feel their voices are not good enough? Is the Minister aware that a lot of suitable young ladies are lost to the profession because of this outdated and outmoded regulation?
It is because I am aware of this problem that I have established a committee of inspectors who are now going into the whole position.
Why not remove the condition?
In case there is any misunderstanding that this qualification is required only for young ladies will the Minister confirm that this qualification is required for young gentlemen? Will he give us an explanation as to why Deputy Andrews is apparently only interested in young ladies?
Get your facts right.
They are right.
They are not right. At least when a Fianna Fáil Deputy puts a question down he has his facts right.
Is the Minister confirming or denying that the singing qualification is applicable also to young gentlemen? Does it apply to them, too?
No. I did not want to be hard on the Deputy.
I am glad that representations here have been successful in relation to one branch of the teaching profession. Would the Minister say when this condition was dropped for them?
A year or 18 months ago.
It was not generally announced. It should have been made known.
It was announced.
Any representations made by the Fine Gael Party apply to both sexes. Will the Minister now extend to the women what he has extended to the men?
That is what I am examining.
Why did the Minister not do it then?
We like from our female teachers a degree of culture.
It is a most unfair discrimination against women.