I move:
That a sum not exceeding £11,500 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1970, for Secret Service.
Committee on Finance. - Vote 13: Secret Service.
Can the Minister say if the amount is fully spent every year?
It is nearly always spent.
Can the Minister tell us who gets the money?
Can the Minister tell us if these people have finished their investigations of us?
Tá sé fé rún daingean.
Who is responsible for the accounting of it?
First of all, two Ministers are involved. The Minister who wishes to avail of the vote must apply to me and both of us must sign the requisition.
So it is available to each Minister? Would the Minister tell us which Ministers have availed of it during the past 12 months?
No, I would not.
The Minister should know. We are on the Estimates.
To whom are the Ministers availing of this vote responsible? Is it to the Minister for Finance, to the Taoiseach, to Taca or to the Garda Síochána.
Tá sé fé rún daingean.
This is information that we are entitled to have. How is this money accounted for? Who is in control of it?
It is accounted for in the normal way to the Comptroller and Auditor General.
Is more information available to the Committee of Public Accounts? The position, therefore, is that Government Ministers have £11,500 to spend on what they consider to be secret service activity and the Minister is not in a position to disclose any information.
It would not be true to say that Government Ministers have it.
Would it be the Department of Justice who have it?
I cannot say.
Is the position such that we do not know to whom the Secret Service are responsible?
I am concerned only with this sum of money. The traditions of the House are that the House does not inquire as to where this money goes. As I have already said, there must be two Ministers involved in the disimbursement of the money. The accounting officer of the Department of Finance is the accounting officer for this money and it is accounted for to the Comptroller and Auditor General.
Could we have any idea from the Minister as to the functions performed by the Secret Service?
We should be a little more adult about this. It is an intriguing little thing.
It is a question of £11,500.
There are strict accountancy procedures.
Can the Minister not give any details?
Frankly, I would not know where it goes.
Would it not be possible for the Minister to tell us what kind of general utility this gives to the State. One can see that he is not going to name the various informants that he no doubt has.
I am satisfied that the State gets full value for the expenditure of this money and I so assure the House. If the House does not accept that, it can remove me.
It is not so easy to remove the Minister.
As you found out.
Did I understand the Minister to say that the accounting officer of the Department of Finance is responsible for the accounting of this money and that it is not just a question of a requisition by two Ministers?
That is so.
Therefore, there is an administrative check as well as a political one?
Yes.
It is important to know that.
Vote put and agreed to.