Vol. 242 No. 3
asked the Minister for Education on what grounds his Department has sought from a teacher (name supplied) the repayment of £640 2s 9d in respect of the cost of his training, on the grounds that he is not a wholetime teacher of metalwork, when he is in fact a wholetime teacher of metalwork employed by a secondary post-primary schools in accordance with his Department's policy of encouraging the study of hand-and-eye subjects in such schools; and whether he will withdraw this demand.
83.
asked the Minister for Education whether he has legal power to pay incremental salaries to metalwork and other hand-and-eye teachers trained under a scheme operated by his Department and working in secondary post-primary schools; if not, whether there is any legal provision preventing him from introducing a separate scheme of salary payments for such teachers; why such a scheme has not been introduced in pursuance of his Department's policy of encouraging the teaching of hand-and-eye subjects in secondary schools announced five years ago; whether he will introduce such a scheme now; and whether in any such scheme provision will be made for retrospective payment of salaries where secondary post-primary schools have introduced hand-and-eye subjects in pursuance of the Department's policy and have employed teachers trained under the scheme operated by his Department.
With your permission, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take questions 82 and 83 together. The man concerned is a teacher of metalwork who was trained in the Department's course 1966-68. Before entry on that course he signed an agreement that on successful completion of the course he would serve for not less han five years in Vocational Schools. Teachers of metalwork are in short supply because of the difficulty of recruiting for training courses persons with the required degree of skill and the necessary standard of education. It is essential that when they are trained their services be given where they are most required. There is no doubt but that the greatest need for these services exists in vocational schools, particularly in connection with apprenticeship training.
As regards the payment of incremental salary to secondary teachers, the position is that such salary can be paid only to registered teachers. The conditions for registration are laid down by the Registration Council which is a statutory body and is comprised of representatives of the universities and university colleges; of the various managerial and teaching bodies and of my Department.
The council has refused to register any teacher unless he has followed a three year training course and had before entry to that course reached leaving certificate standard.
For me to recognise for salary purposes in a secondary school a teacher who is not registered would represent a challenge to a statutory appointed body which I am satisfied would not be warranted.
I feel in fact that the best way to cater for practical subjects in secondary schools is through co-operation between these schools and vocational schools in the matter of teaching arrangements. I will be introducing legislation probably in the next session which will enable such co-operation to take place in a formal way.
Is the Minister not aware that the policy his Department are pursuing is directly contrary to that announced by successive Ministers of Education encouraging the study of hand-and-eye subjects in secondary schools? In this instance the man in question believed what successive Ministers for Education had said and took a post in a secondary school in accordance with their policy of introducing these subjects there. The position now is that not alone is the schools not being paid the incremental salary but the man has been asked to pay back the cost of his course, £640, because he is doing what successive Ministers for Education have said should be done. Would the Minister agree as a minimum to withdraw the demand for the return of this money?
This man was very well aware of the fact he signed an agreement that on completion of the course he would serve for not less than five years in a vocational school. This he did not do. Let me repeat that we must make these teachers available in the schools where they are most needed, and that is in the vocational schools. In my view the best way to make up any deficiencies is through the co-operation between the vocational and secondary schools.
Is the Minister suggesting that a secondary school may not employ a teacher direct but may only borrow one from a vocational school? In what way would that improve the priority situation to which he has referred?
I have no doubt but that arrangements could be made which would help in this matter. As I mentioned in my reply, we are having considerable difficulty in getting sufficient people of the necessary standard to take these training courses. We are doing our utmost to provide as many teachers as possible for metalwork but we are having difficulty in getting sufficient suitable people to take the training courses.
Could the Minister say what is the practical application then of the policy enunciated in 1962 I think by the third or fourth last Minister for Education, and repeated by subsequent Ministers for Education, suggesting that secondary schools should introduce hand-and-eye subjects, that they should be encouraged to do so and that they should take every step they can to do so? When a man does that he is penalised by an attempt to recover £640 from him in loss of salary. How does the Minister reconcile that with the policy laid down? Would the Minister now reconsider the position?
The Deputy can take it that this is our policy but that we must have regard to priorities. As soon as we get sufficient teachers trained we will be able to put the policy into full operation.
In the meantime any man who implements the Minister's policy will be fined?
No. Any man who signs an agreement that he is going to teach in a vocational schools for five years knows exactly what he is doing and what the consequences are if he does not comply with the agreement which he has signed.
