Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 20 Nov 1969

Vol. 242 No. 9

Business of Dáil.

Mr. Corish

A Cheann Comhairle, last evening I gave notice of my intention to put down a Private Notice Question to the Minister for Justice. The question is:

To ask the Minister for Justice if as a result of discussions between the gardaí and a representative, or representatives, of RTE he is prepared to substantiate his allegations, based on the information of people with criminal records and without consulting with the television people involved before he made the allegation, that the Seven Days programme on moneylending was "deliberately contrived for television"; if he will say whether or not he proposes to call into question and test, even in a court of law, the entitlement of a journalist to protect his sources of information; if he will now say whether or not the gardaí know how many unlicensed moneylenders there are in Dublin city since they disagree with the estimate of Seven Days given at 500; if he will say whether or not the gardaí have investigated the abuse of trading cheques with a view to protecting the people from exploitation and if he will make a statement on whether or not the rackets and exploitation exposed in this programme give cause for concern sufficient for serious action by his Department.

I gather from information conveyed to those of us who tabled questions on this matter, that you regarded it as not being of urgent public importance. I would like to submit, respectfully, that it is.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have any discussion on this. The Chair has given no ruling on this matter yet.

Mr. Desmond

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

There is no point of order. The Chair has given careful consideration to this matter but in my opinion none of the questions submitted, even assuming they were all admissible as questions, had the degree of urgency required by the Standing Order to qualify as Private Notice Questions. In the actual event the questions to the Minister for Justice were disallowed because they did not have the requisite degree of urgency to qualify as Private Notice Questions and the questions to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs were disallowed because of lack of Ministerial responsibility in the matter. The ruling, I might say, is in accordance with long standing practice.

Mr. Corish

I respect your ruling but also, with respect, might I submit that, in my opinion and in the opinion of the members of my party who tabled similar questions, it is of urgent public importance, particularly because serious allegations were made by the Minister for Justice against certain employees of Radio Telefís Éireann. There is also in question the reputation of Radio Telefís Éireann generally. I submit also that those allegations made by the Minister should be either substantiated or withdrawn in this House. They should not be left hanging in the air, with suspicion in the minds of members of the public who might be influenced by what the Minister said I also think it is of urgent public importance in that the Minister in his reply appeared to put the employees of Radio Telefís Éireann in the dock rather than the people in question, the moneylenders.

Mr. Desmond

I, too, gave notice of such questions both to the Taoiseach and to the Minister for Justice. I did this in view of the very serious implications contained in the Minister's statement which if true, mean either the integrity of the staff concerned is in question or they are unfit for their posts. Alternatively, if the Minister's allegations are untrue, we should have his resignation in this House. I further asked the Taoiseach if the allegations made by the Minister for Justice were untrue.

An Ceann Comhairle

Might I point out to the Deputy there can be no debate on those points at the moment. The only question before us is the Chair's ruling and there can be no debate on that either. I have already explained my position.

Mr. Desmond

I submit to you that the matter is of serious public importance and is very urgent.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair does not agree, so far as Standing Order 30 is concerned and for this reason I have ruled out the possibility of discussing it.

Mr. Desmond

I wish to record serious dissatisfaction with your ruling, Sir. This matter is of serious public importance, and I think your ruling is most unfair in view of the fact that seven Deputies on this side of the House have tabled questions.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have any debate. My ruling is in accordance with Standing Order 30.

Mr. Corish

I assume, therefore, there is no appeal against your decision.

An Ceann Comhairle

No.

Mr. Corish

The question is tabled for next Tuesday in any case.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputies may enter the questions for Tuesday next and if they are in order they will come up for answer.

Dr. Cruise-O'Brien

May I ask if all the questions were not accepted? Some of them were addressed to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs and others to the Minister for Justice.

An Ceann Comhairle

I alluded to these in my reply. The questions to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs were out of order because of lack of Ministerial responsibility in the matter.

Mr. Desmond

On a point of order, the question I addressed to the Taoiseach has now, I note, been referred to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs by the Taoiseach. I would point out I asked the Taoiseach if he would hold a public inquiry. Now that question has been referred to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs who presumably will deal with it next week. Frankly, this kind of shuffling off of Ministerial responsibility is a matter of grave concern.

Mr. Boland

The Deputy does not say who is responsible.

Mr. Desmond

We need parliamentary reform.