Vol. 242 No. 11
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries what moneys have been recouped from the British Government under the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement for the beef export guarantee scheme in the financial years 1967-68 and 1968-69; and the net cost to the Exchequer of the scheme in these two financial years.
21.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries the amount received in respect of Irish carcase beef exports for the year 1968-69 under the terms of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement; and the anticipated amount for 1969-70.
23.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries the total payments made under the carcase beef export support scheme for the year ended 31st March, 1969; and the latest forecast by his Department of total payments for the year to 31st March, 1970.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose taking questions Nos. 20, 21 and 23 together, and to circulate with the Official Report a table setting out the information requested.
Following is the table:—
|
Year |
Total payments under Beef Export Guarantee Scheme |
Amount payable by British Government in respect of imports of Irish beef during year |
Net expenditure by Irish Exchequerunder Beef Export Guarantee Scheme |
|
£ |
£ |
£ |
|
|
1967-68 |
1,249,700 |
4,474,000 |
|
|
1968-69 |
2,182,500 |
700,000 |
1,482,500 |
|
1969-70 |
1,800,000 |
860,000 |
|
|
(estimated) |
(estimated) |
Is the Minister aware of the grave dissatisfaction in the meat trade and in farming circles over the reduced level of subsidy paid in view of the trade agreement? Could he indicate when he will meet the meat exporters, the NFA and the ICMSA to discuss this matter with them?
I am aware there are some people who allege they have a grievance in this matter. This was dealt with at the time we upped the subsidy in respect of which we are paying considerably more per pound, depending on market conditions, than we would have been paying had we not upped it at that time. There is a sort of fallacy abroad that what we did eight or nine months ago was that we actually reduced our commitments, and thereby the payments we might be called on to make, whereas in fact we increased our liability if the circumstances arose in which we should be called on to pay.
Does the Minister think he will be paying more this year in carcase beef export subsidies than last year? Has the Minister been advised by his civil servants that he will be paying more this year under the beef export guarantee scheme than he did last year or the year before?
That does not quite arise. It certainly does not follow, whatever about it arising. As the Deputy is surely aware, the amount that may fall to be paid in any week, or, indeed, taking the year as a whole, depends not just on the rate of subsidy that may be applicable but on the market conditions that obtain throughout the year. If we have better rates on the market overall, we pay less towards subsidies. If we have lower prices we pay correspondingly more.
In reply to a question two weeks ago the Minister indicated——
Has the Deputy a question?
——that the Department would be liable to £1½ million in extra subsidies this year. Does the Minister still think we would be paying £1½ million more for carcase meat exports this year?
That will depend——
The Minister stated it specifically.
When the Deputy talks about a specific undertaking or a specific reply, the Deputy should also provide the House with the specific information or the document from which it is taken and in its full context—not out of context as he is doing at the moment.
Does the Minister not agree that while there was an absolute increase this situation has set a dangerous precedent in that he departed from the British rate? The Irish farmers and factories who are in direct competition with British farmers and factories are receiving a lesser rate of subsidy. Does this not set a dangerous precedent, because once the Minister has departed from the British rate farmers will be uncertain as to future movements of the rate of subsidy and this uncertainty will have grave effects on the future planning of farmers?
The Deputy exaggerates the situation. I do not foresee that this is likely to give rise to uncertainty as to our future. In fact, the indications are that in the present year, far from it having the effect of reducing the number of cattle a farmer might keep, it is in the reverse direction we have been moving. A greater number of cattle are on hands today, taking all sorts and sizes into account, than at any other time.
Is this not an artificial situation bearing in mind that the Argentinians are closed off from the British market and that when the Argentine renews its cattle trade with Britain a different situation will operate? Our factories are competing with British buyers of Irish stores and when they are getting a smaller rate they are in a worse competitive position. Northern Ireland factories are receiving an extra halfpenny in addition to the British rate.
The Deputy is making a speech.
I am asking a number of questions.
I am aware of all the factors and it was in consideration of all these factors that the changes that have already taken place were made.
Can the Minister——
We have 136 questions on the Order Paper and we are endeavouring to get through as many as we can.
I am entitled to ask a supplementary.
It is a matter for the Chair whether the Deputy will ask a supplementary. He is not entitled to ask a supplementary.
22.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he will make a statement on the Government's reasons for keeping the Irish rate of carcase beef export support per lb. at a lower level than the rate payable under the British fatstock guarantee scheme in the current financial year, contrary to the arrangement which existed in previous years whereby the Irish and British rates of beef subsidy were equal.
I would refer the Deputy to my replies to questions on this subject on 15th April and 11th November, 1969.
24.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries the total payments to meat factories under the carcase beef export support scheme for the seven months to 31st October, 1969 and for the corresponding period in 1968.
Payments to meat factories under the beef export guarantee scheme totalled £719,000 in the seven months ended 31st October, 1969, and £876,300 in the corresponding months of 1968.
