Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 12 Feb 1970

Vol. 244 No. 5

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Housing Programme.

23.

Dr. FitzGerald

asked the Minister for Local Government whether he is aware that the 1966 census shows that the number of households of twelve or more which had fallen by 9 per cent between 1926 and 1946, and had risen by only 3 per cent between 1946 and 1961, increased by 31½ per cent in the five years from 1961 to 1966, to 5,604 over threequarters of which consisted of five or less rooms; and that the number of households with 11 members, which had fallen throughout the previous history of the State increased during the 1961-1966 period by 12 per cent to 4,898, threequarters of which also comprised five or less rooms; and whether in view of this evidence of increased overcrowding in this recent period he will expand the housing programme.

24.

Dr. FitzGerald

asked the Minister for Local Government whether he is aware that the proportion of households with two or more people per room, which the Government's most recent White Paper describes as a crude indicator of overcrowding, fell from 37.1 per cent to 17.8 per cent between 1926 and 1961, but remained almost static in the five-year period 1961 to 1966; and that the proportion of severely overcrowded households with three or more per room, which declined from 15.2 per cent between 1926 and 1961 also remained virtually static from 1961 to 1966; and whether in view of this he will expand the housing programme.

25.

Dr. FitzGerald

asked the Minister for Local Government whether he is aware that between 1961 and 1966 the number of households with three or more per room in Dublin increased by 3,200 or over 10 per cent whereas in the rest of the country they fell by 6,700 or 10 per cent; and whether in the light of this pattern he will expand the housing programme in Dublin.

Mr. Boland

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 23, 24 and 25 together. I would refer the Deputy to my reply to his question of the 5th February on a similar subject. Information on the lines of that to which he refers was taken into account in the preparation of the White Paper Housing in the Seventies, published last June, which indicated the Government's intention of continuing the expansion of the housing programme. I would also refer the Deputy to the details regarding the housing programme in Dublin and elsewhere which I gave yesterday in my statement on the Estimate for my Department.

Dr. Byrne

Is the Minister aware that this is not an expansion of the housing programme; from the figures quoted here in this reply it is a contraction of the housing programme?

Mr. Boland

I consider that 15,000 to 17,000 houses a year is an expansion over 13,000 houses. The Deputy may think this is a contraction but I think it is an expansion. The people do too. That is why we are here and you are over there.

Dr. FitzGerald

Would the Minister not agree that the statement yesterday that in the year ahead the price of houses would out-run the increase in capital available means arithmetically that the volume of housing provided must fall?

Mr. Boland

Not necessarily, if we can secure the erection of a greater number of lower-cost houses.

Dr. FitzGerald

Does that not mean that the volume of houses must fall but by making the houses smaller and smaller you can get more numbers out of a smaller volume?

Mr. Boland

Not smaller and smaller, by ensuring that State assistance will be utilised to encourage the provision of the more modest-type house we can get more houses.

Dr. FitzGerald

So as to ensure that the average size of house falls sufficiently to enable the reduced volume of housing to provide the same number of houses.

Mr. Boland

In circumstances where——

Dr. FitzGerald

You have no money.

Mr. Boland

——the cost of housing is increasing and when there is a great need for the production of an increasing number of dwelling units, it is correct policy to try to secure the provision of the maximum number of units of accommodation out of the available capital.

Mr. P. Belton

Rabbit warrens.

Dr. FitzGerald

I am not disagreeing with the Minister. I am only asking him to confirm, as he has now confirmed, that the actual volume of housing——

Mr. Boland

I have not confirmed anything the Deputy has said at all.

Dr. FitzGerald

——will be reduced that it will be divided into smaller units?

Mr. Boland

The Minister has not confirmed anything the Deputy said.

Dr. FitzGerald

I am glad to have that confirmed by the Minister. I thought I had got the right end of the stick from the press this morning but I just wanted to make sure.

An Ceann Comhairle

This would be appropriate on the Estimate now before the House.

Dr. FitzGerald

Other people have raised wider issues but I merely want a reply to my questions. As regards the increase of ten per cent in severely overcrowded houses during the period 1961 to 1966 which began four years after Fianna Fáil came into office, does that not indicate gross neglect, and are the plans that the Minister now proposes, involving a reduction in the volume of housing next year, in any way appropriate to the kind of situation created by Fianna Fáil neglect over that period?

Mr. Boland

No.

Dr. FitzGerald

No? Plans are not appropriate. We are glad to here that.

Mr. Boland

"No" to one of the questions. I do not know which.

An Ceann Comhairle

No. 26.