asked the Minister for Transport and Power if his Department will state annually the names of the firms receiving grants, and the amounts of the grants paid out by Bord Fáilte; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Bord Fáilte Grants.
67.
The giving of financial assistance for the development of the tourist industry is a statutory function of Bord Fáilte Éireann. The grant schemes are financed out of moneys voted annually by Dáil Éireann in the form of grants-in-aid.
The main grant schemes operated by Bord Fáilte are those for the development of major tourist resorts and for the development of holiday accommodation. The resort development scheme is carried out by the board in co-operation with local authorities and other local development bodies and the board's annual reports contain details of the works undertaken at the various centres and the grant moneys paid.
In the case of holiday accommodation, the main conditions governing the grant scheme, including the maximum grants that can be paid in respect of the various forms of development, are subject to my approval and the approval of the Minister for Finance. It is Bord Fáilte's responsibility to determine in the light of the approved conditions the amount of grant payable in the case of each development. In dealing with applications each individual case is treated on its merits; the board take account of the type and price-level of the accommodation proposed, the amount of accommodation already available, the market needs, the location of the development, the amount of off-season business available and other relevant factors. The board's administration of the grant scheme is audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General.
The majority of Irish hotels are small in size and are owned by individuals, families or small private companies and these people expect that their dealings with Bord Fáilte, particularly about their financial affairs, will receive confidential treatment. Bord Fáilte consider that publication of details of grants to individuals and companies would tend to inhibit investment in the tourist industry. In view of the importance of ensuring the continued development of the industry, I feel that it would not be in the public interest to disclose particulars of grants paid in these cases. Nevertheless, I am anxious that as much information as possible in relation to grant moneys should be made available generally and for this reason I am arranging for Bord Fáilte to take another look at this matter with a view to including in their annual reports such additional information about the holiday accommodation grants as may be compatible with the preservation of confidence.
Surely as a matter of public responsibility Bord Fáilte should adopt the same procedure as that adopted by An Foras Tionscal?
Foras Tionscal used to give a list every year of the firms who received grants and of the total sum of the grants given. Surely there is no difference in giving the same information concerning hotels as An Foras Tionscal give concerning firms? I do not see any difference whatsoever. The absence of such information would indicate to me at least that there is some type of political string being pulled concerning grants for hotels.
The Deputy appears to be making a statement.
Would the Minister kindly publish a list of the grants given to hotels?
I deplore the Deputy's reference to a political string but, on the general principle of the matter, I referred to this yesterday in the reply to my Estimate. As the House is aware, I took the line that the Public Accounts Committee or a re-organised Public Accounts Committee, as recommended in the Devlin Report, should have certain supervision in regard to the non-commercial semi-State bodies similar to the supervision they have in regard to the Departments of State. I am very much in favour of doing this generally both in regard to the commercial and the non-commercial State-sponsored bodies. Certainly in regard to the non-commercial State-sponsored bodies, such as Bord Fáilte, I think they should come within the ambit of the Public Accounts Committee. That is the broader issue which I referred to yesterday.
On the particular point made by the Deputy, there is a certain difference between An Foras Tionscal concerned with public companies and Bord Fáilte which is largely concerned with private individuals and smaller companies. However, I share the Deputy's concern in this matter and that is why I said at the end of my reply that I am having it examined at the moment. It will be examined in the context particularly of what I said initially, the overall supervision of those bodies by some form of committee of the Oireachtas with proper secretariat and proper research to do a reasonably good scrutiny and supervision of all those State bodies.
Is the Minister aware that An Foras Tionscal give a list also of grants payable to small private companies and, in fact, individuals?
I am very sympathetic to the whole idea.
Is the Minister further aware, and I mean this in no spirit of criticism or of casting aspersions on anyone, that in the report of a public company in this country quite recently there was an asterisked item indicating that certain large grants totalling nearly half a million pounds were repayable to An Bord Fáilte in certain circumstances; but neither the circumstances nor any other information in relation to those grants which had been allocated were given to either the shareholders in that company or the public who might be investors or the employees within that company? In this situation, does the Minister not agree immediately that there is a necessity, not for any arrangement with the Public Accounts Committee, but for an arrangement whereby, just as and Foras Tionscal does, the grants allocated, the grants paid and the recipients are listed annually.
May I ask a final supplementary question of the Minister in view of his obvious sympathy in this matter——
A final one from the Deputy, not from me.
——that in respect of grants, say, in excess of a figure of £5,000 to hotels he could now, without any Ministerial regulation being invoked, request Bord Fáilte to publish on an annual basis a statement of such hotels. The Minister will appreciate that there is public disquiet about certain hoteliers and certain groups of hoteliers allegedly getting more favourable treatment than others. The only way to allay those fears is to have them tabulated on a regular basis. I do not want to know what every guest-house gets.
It would seem at the moment that we are getting a series of statements on a question.
I feel fairly strongly on this matter and I have already taken it up with Bord Fáilte. Perhaps if the Deputy puts down a question in a month's time I might have more precise information on it because I feel there is a lot of sense in what has been suggested here by Deputies but how to do it without bringing in the small cases and the small individuals is a different matter. Perhaps what Deputy Desmond said about having a financial minimum as it were is not a bad idea. Anyway I will look into the whole matter and perhaps if a question were put down in about a month's time I might have something more to say about it.
Could the Minister say if, when he says to put a question down in a month's time, he is referring simply to this narrow though very important issue of the disclosure of the grants or whether this refers to the idea he showed sympathy towards, that is, an All-Party Committee of the House to deal with those matters?
That is a bigger matter.
This is moving outside the scope of the question asked.
It is not going outside the scope of the reply.
The Chair is concerned with questions at this stage.
This is a far bigger matter involving the whole Devlin Report and it is really outside the scope of the question but certainly the whole Devlin Report is being examined in detail by the Government at the present time. This is a matter not just for a month of two. This is a matter which will have to be teased out over a longer period and will have to be given very close examination.
The Minister has raised my hopes.