asked the Minister for Justice if he will extend the new widows and orphans scheme and the ex-gratia scheme for widows of public servants to include Garda widows.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Garda Widows' and Orphans' Pensions.
7.
Mr. Dunne
The schemes to which the Deputy refers were introduced within the last two years to provide, for the first time, pensions for the widows and orphans of members of the staff of the Civil Service and local authorities. I might point out, in contrast, that for more than 40 years pensions have been provided for the widows and orphans of members of the Garda Síochána.
This matter was considered by the Conroy Commission, which has recommended that the terms on which the new schemes applying to the Civil Service should be applied to the Garda Síochána should be negotiated between the Garda representative bodies and the official side. This recommendation is under examination in my Department and in the Department of Finance.
(Cavan): Is the Minister aware that this question of pensions payable to Garda widows has given rise to great dissatisfaction over a long period, that these widows are convinced that as compared with other State widows they have got a very raw deal, and that while their deceased husbands had been contributing to these scheme for a long number of years, as the Minister said, their pensions still compare very unfavourably with pensions payable to other State servants?
Well, it is one of these cases where the situation keeps evolving. There was a time when Garda widows were in an advantageous situation in relation to pensions payable to other members of the public service because they had some pension while others had none. Now we have introduced pensions for the public service generally and the question arises of applying in some way this new type of widows' pensions to the Garda Síochána. That is actually under active consideration.
(Cavan): The Minister will agree that at present Garda widows are in a less favourable position——
Temporarily I would suggest.
(Cavan): I would suggest that in view of the apparent unrest in the force in general a favourable decision on this matter should be expedited.
Well, it is more a question of negotiating a new scheme rather than a decision. I can assure the Deputy that there will be no delay on our part because we recognise the necessity for continually improving the situation in this regard. Now that we have a better scheme of pensions for the public service generally it is only a question of negotiating new conditions under which they will be applicable to the Garda Síochána.
(Cavan): This is one of the many grounds for complaint that the Garda force have.
On the broader issue I should like to remind the House that this Government in the very recent past established a commission, the Conroy Commission, the first commission since the force was founded to go into all these matters and make recommendations. That commission have made very far reaching and fundamental recommendations for the improvement of the conditions in the force generally. We are moving with considerable expedition to implement those recommendations. Any impartial observer must admit that the Garda Síochána in the last year or two have had, and I hope in the next year or two will have, a fundamental improvement in their situation as a result of the Conroy Commission and the implementation of their recommendations.
(Cavan): I do not——
Question No. 8. I am calling Question No. 8. The Deputy has had three supplementaries.
(Cavan): Arising out of new matter in the Minister's reply I should like to ask him does he not agree in reference to the Conroy Commission, that the Government have behaved very badly——
That is a separate question. The question relates to widows and orphans.
(Cavan): And it took a Garda strike to get——
That does not arise on the question.
That is a most unfair and irresponsible thing to say.
(Cavan): It is not; it is a factual thing.
(Interruptions.)
Question No. 8.