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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 9 Jul 1970

Vol. 248 No. 6

Membership of EEC: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by the Taoiseach on Tuesday, 23rd June, 1970:
That Dáil Éireann takes note of the White Paper entitledMembership of the European Communities: Implications for Ireland.
Debate resumed on the following amendment:
To add at the end of the motion:
"and urges the Government to ensure that the terms of membership to be negotiated adequately safeguard the interests of the people of Ireland."
—(Deputy Cosgrave.)

When I reported progress I was saying that there were many thousands of people in Europe who were not aware of the existence of Ireland as a sovereign, independent State until our application to join the EEC was made and made separately from that of Britain. It was then revealed to these people that this country was an independent and sovereign State. The enlargement of the European Economic Community presents this country with a wonderful opportunity. I cannot understand the case put forward by those who are opposed to this country joining the EEC. As I have already pointed out, and as other Deputies have pointed out, Fine Gael believe that it is in the best interests of this country that not alone should we apply for membership of the EEC but that with Britain and Denmark we should endeavour to obtain full membership. By obtaining full membership we will be immediately securing ourselves against economic dependence on Britain.

Politicians and economists agree that for trading and business purposes our geographical position and our proximity to Britain makes it easy for us to trade with our nearest neighbour. There have been links in the business sector as well as the important link of sterling between Ireland and Britain. It is also a fact that there are many thousands of Irish people who could not obtain a decent standard of life in this country and are now employed in Britain, and I would add the fact that with modern means of transport we can go to the cities of London and Manchester in a very short time. Because of those links, and due to other circumstances, for many years we have had to depend too much on Britain as a market for our exports and this total dependence is not desirable.

What are the alternatives? As we enter the seventies we should give serious consideration to our position if we embark on a policy of isolation. We have no wish to repeat the disasters of the economic war but it is worth noting that as a result of that economic war Irish agriculture was in a depressed state. Despite the fact that Britain was our nearest neighbour and our major export market, in those early days people were advised to burn everything English except their coal and there was much rejoicing in many parts of this country when it was said that the British market was gone forever. The people who engaged in such exercises have since learned of the importance of the British market and of any other market that will ensure profitable prices for our farmers.

While it is true that Britain took the major part of our exports, we must not forget that we helped in no small way to provide the British people with cheap subsidised food. We know that the trade agreements between this country and Britain were not as favourable to us as we would have wished them to be, with the exception of the 1948 trade agreement which I consider the most successful contract negotiated between the two countries. That agreement was responsible for our farmers receiving many millions of pounds.

On several occasions since 1948 Irish Ministers have gone to Britain to negotiate markets and to discuss levies and tariffs. I can clearly recall one such occasion when an Irish delegation went to negotiate better terms for Irish exports but the outcome was that we lost some of the markets we had previously. It is difficult to visualise the situation of a delegation at ministerial level not only failing to secure increased markets but actually having existing markets reduced, but this is what happened. The Irish agricultural producers had to put up with that situation because there was nothing else they could do. The fact that the Irish representatives might have blundered or were out-manoeuvred by their British counterparts meant that the producers were the sufferers. It must be admitted that nine times out of ten the British negotiators were more skilful than the Irish negotiating team.

In 1948 the position was different and I regard the agreement concluded in that year as the most decisive breakthrough in negotiations between the two countries. It was probably one of the main reasons for the general improvement in agriculture in the early fifties.

A situation in which we have to depend to such an extent on Britain necessarily places a restriction on us. I have yet to hear a convincing argument put up by those who cannot see the wisdom of joining the EEC about what we should do if Britain closes her doors to us. If Britain joins the EEC and we do not, again, what happens to our exports? Nobody has stated where we could obtain profitable export markets for all our products. This situation convinces me that we must take this step forward.

In this situation there is a difference in the attitudes of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. Fianna Fáil believe in joining the EEC. Fine Gael believe this is the right step but our party are not satisfied that sufficient safeguards have been provided to protect the interests of the Irish people and Fine Gael have no confidence in those who will negotiate on our behalf.

When we realise that Germany, France, Italy, Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg have come together in this Community and that the applications of Ireland, Britain, Denmark and Norway are under consideration we cannot possibly stay out in isolation. We must take a step forward. I would much prefer to see us take a courageous step into the future than to stand still. The only proper step forward for us to take is to go into Europe, along with Britain, Denmark and Norway.

When we enter the EEC we shall have to take on certain commitments. We shall find a ready market for all the goods we have exported which will mean we will not have to depend on Britain or be subject to frequent meetings between Irish Ministers and British Ministers and the changing whims of both Governments. When we enter the EEC we shall enter a Community in which we have a say and in which the larger powers cannot crush the weaker ones because machinery is there to ensure that that cannot be done. Ireland will have a say, perhaps not as loud a say as she would like, but nevertheless she will be heard along with Norway, Denmark, Britain and the Six who are already in the Community. If my reading of the history of the EEC is correct there is no danger of this country being overshadowed or dominated by any of the other member countries. For far too long economically we have been dominated entirely by Britain. It is time we shook off that domination or dependence. If we are the independent sovereign State which we are supposed to be we should not be afraid to stand on our own feet and face the future, not independently of Britain but with Britain and independent of all the other member countries.

We are a small country, this part of which has its independence, but economically we have always been tied to Britain. It is time we broke these ties and sought new and more profitable markets, instead of always depending on the British market as we have done in the past. It has been found that big powers act to suit themselves and smaller countries have no means of defending their economies. We all know that France, Great Britain and Germany are inclined to throw their weight about, but by being in the Community and not having to depend on Britain for our existence, we shall be able to stand on our own feet and utilise the new markets which will be opened up to us. I thought it was very sad to read—and it was written not only in one newspaper but in many— that, despite all our talk, there were thousands of people in Europe who did not know of our existence as an independent State but merely thought of us as part of Great Britain, Britain's shadow in Europe.

I believe it is correct to say that Britain controls our markets. There may have been times, such as in 1948, when we got the better bargain, but more often than not Britain got the better end of the bargain. More often than not Britain got the real value and the real profit out of the skill, hard work and industry of our farmers. For the very first time we have an opportunity to take our place in Europe and help to build up a Europe of peace and co-operation; a Europe free from jealousies, bickering and bigotry; a Europe which will contribute towards world peace; a Europe in which our people will have improved and better standards of living. That should be our aim.

This brings me to a serious point about the negotiation of the terms on which we should enter or on which we are to enter the EEC. I hope I shall be forgiven by the Government for saying this, but it is better for one to say what is on one's mind. I think we have a very dependable and highly efficient Civil Service. The successful outcome of the EEC negotiations must be based on the activities of our well-trained, efficient Civil Service because the Ministerial group who should be making the case for Ireland in the name of Fianna Fáil do not enjoy the confidence of the people of this country.

Hear, hear.

We cannot refer to civil servants by name in this House. My remarks will be read by some of them. I hope the civil servants associated with Ireland's entry into the EEC will assist our Ministers. They are the men we must depend on to carry on negotiations when Fine Gael are not there to do so. If Fine Gael were in office they would carry on more favourable negotiations and would look for much better concessions for Ireland in connection with entry to the EEC than Fianna Fáil can do at the moment. We have a new, young Government. All that can be said about them is that they are there. They cannot agree among themselves. They do not trust each other. They are the men who will sit with Ministers from Norway, Denmark, Britain, France, Germany, Luxembourg and Holland. It is well known in all these countries that this Government stands discredited. This Government have not the confidence of the Irish people. They are a Government who have not the confidence of the Prime Minister. This Government seems to be completely without leadership. They are stumbling from one crisis to another. They hope for more favourable situations. They await better days. It is most tragic that very important decisions, such as this one, must be taken by men who distrust one another. It is tragic that Ireland should have to depend on such men. The members of the Government are greedy for power and authority. They are all seeking to further their own ends.

This is the time for hard thinking and planning. If the Fianna Fáil Government were asked to give an account of the manner in which they prepared for entry into the EEC all that would emerge would be plans, commissions, reports, boards of investigation, inquiries and files packed away in Government Buildings but none of the recommendations in them would have been implemented. I would be interested to hear a Minister clearly and distinctly outline how he has equipped the people under his control for immediate entry to the EEC. This Government have not shown much action. They all talk loudly but say little of importance.

I should like to inquire whether those who will be considering Ireland's application in Brussels will ask for what is known as a certificate of solvency of this State before they consider the application. I remember reading in a British newspaper that on the last occasion on which Britain's application was under consideration an inquiry was made as to Britain's economic and financial standing. Some of those who were on the Commission in Brussels commented that it would be time enough to consider Britain's application for membership of the EEC when she had put her financial affairs in order. If that was said about Britain on the last occasion on which the application was under consideration, what can be said about Ireland now? Can this Government produce a certificate of solvency? Is it not correct to say that our economy is on the verge of national bankruptcy? Is it not correct to say that economically and financially we are on the doorstep of national bankruptcy?

Our agricultural community which should be geared to a high degree for EEC entry is in a state of gloom. None of the important schemes has been carried out to ensure that our livestock for export will be taken if we enter the EEC. We could not provide the necessary clean bill of health required by the EEC for livestock because we still have warble fly and other infestations. No effort has been made by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries to provide money to equip Irish farmers to have their livestock in such a condition that they could meet the full requirements of entry to the EEC

We know that agriculture is depressed. It could not be otherwise after the mismanagement of the past four or five years. The other main industry linked closely with agriculture is the tourist industry. Whether we like it or not, this Government have destroyed the tourist industry because of activities both north and south. They have been responsible for bringing about what we can describe as a disaster for all connected with the tourist trade and industry.

How can we produce a certificate of solvency when there are between 60,000 and 70,000 people unemployed in our country and when we have what is perhaps the world record for strikes? There can be added to the list of achievements under Fianna Fáil in relation to strikes what was perhaps one of the longest strikes in the world, the cement strike which lasted for more than five months. We complain that the tourist industry has declined but we find that for several weeks past the banks have been closed so that week after week there is a gradual build-up of chaos in business, in commerce and in trade. This very important economic factor has a bearing on the tourist industry and on the general economic trends in the country. Our record in relation to strikes is deplorable. It is not a record that can assist us in any way in entering Europe. I shall not develop that point. I shall merely say that all of this has led to a declining economy. As was indicated clearly in the Ross and Buchanan Reports, we are an underdeveloped country. We cannot describe ourselves in any way as being a country fit to take our place with Britain, with France, with Italy or even with Denmark if we compare their agricultural progress with the agricultural progress of this country.

We are entering into the great unknown with confidence but we are going in with the disadvantage of being ill-equipped because of the failure of Fianna Fáil to realise their responsibilities to the people of this country. The steps necessary for preparation have not been carried out in an effective or efficient manner. In fact, no steps have been taken. How often have we read reports in the newspapers of the speeches of Ministers at chambers of commerce, at cumann meetings and even in dance halls, making reference to our preparation for EEC membership? Is it not true that we have only been scratching the surface, and scratching it very lightly, and that the real preparation for entry has not been made by our people either in industry or in agriculture because they were not given the chance to make preparation?

According to the review of the Department of Finance in 1969, more than 1,400 firms in this country have received adaptation grants but that represents only one-third of the number of industries that require to be geared for entry to the Community. May I ask the Taoiseach or any member of the Government what is to happen to the remaining two-thirds? Are they to collapse? Are they to disintegrate or disappear? Will they be unable to compete and so be priced out of business within the Community? I want to know what exactly is the position in relation to the two-thirds of our industries for which State grants have not been made available.

I am a believer in Irish industry. The techniques and skills of our industrialists and, in particular, of our workers, are as good as any to be found in the world. If Irish industry were properly prepared for the Common Market, it would give an excellent account of itself. Suitable grants should be provided in order to increase efficiency. One cannot expect those engaged in and sponsoring Irish industry to increase efficiency without having some measure of Government support and co-operation. In other words, it is the Government who should gear industrialists towards the Community so that they will be able to compete with France, Germany, Britain and other powerful countries.

There has been a high degree of failure on the part of Fianna Fáil to prepare our people for Community membership. As Deputy Cosgrave has indicated clearly, we, on this side of the House, agree that Ireland should seek membership of the Community because of our belief that we can play our part as a nation. However, our people must be prepared and equipped for membership. Fine Gael have not been in a position to prepare or equip them. The responsibility lies with Fianna Fáil. This may be the 11th hour but even at this stage the Government should examine seriously their conscience in relation to the preparation of our people in industry, trade and agriculture for Community membership. Those of us who have been abroad realise the keenness of competition that must be faced in Europe because of the mechanised farming and the marketing systems there. Our people are so ill-equipped that our entry into Europe could be compared to putting an untrained boxer, without boxing gloves, into the ring with a champion. We are not trained for the European exercise and the blame must rest with the Government.

All branches of our economy must compete with Europe's best. Therefore, we must put our people into the position in which they will at least have a fair opportunity. The Ministers for Industry and Commerce, Agriculture, Defence and all the other Ministers of the Government have failed miserably to emphasise the importance of the role our people can play in Europe and to help them to meet the drawbacks that the Minister for External Affairs says we might experience.

Is it not right that on an occasion such as this Deputies should ask if as a result of our entry into Europe there will be redundancy in industrial employment, and if so, what steps are being taken to minimise that redundancy and what steps have been taken to provide alternative employment? When levies and tariffs are removed and when there is more or less free trade between member States, will many of our industries be faced with unfair competition as a result of price cutting or dumping?

All the cards should be put on the table. The Minister for External Affairs says when you are playing a good game you do not put all your cards on the table. This is an occasion when the Irish people expect all the cards to be put on the table, when they do not want to draw blanks, or to toss the two-headed penny. This is an occasion when they want to be told the facts. I ask what are the facts in connection with the pricing out of Irish industry as a result of free entry of foreign goods. What will happen in the event of redundancy? What will happen in the event of an increase in unemployment?

Does this mean we will be faced with wholesale emigration or will our negotiators insist, as part of the bargain, that the effect on our industries of free entry of goods must be considered and, when an approximate figure is arrived at, require efforts to be made through the EEC to attract European industrialists, and particularly British industrialists, to establish industries here? Would it not be far better to have a group of Irish workers working at home for an English concern than to have them working for the same concern in Leeds, Bradford or Halifax? Would it not be better to have a group of Irish workers working for a French concern in Ireland than to have them employed outside this country?

Therefore, as part of the bargaining in connection with our entry into the EEC we should say to some of those countries, where industrial expansion has taken place, that this is an undeveloped country and we want industries here. We can describe ourselves as an undeveloped country and we should not be ashamed of this. We must face facts. I know it is very hard for a Government, having been 35 years in office, to stand up and say: "We admit we are an undeveloped country. We admit we cannot take our place amongst those great powers which are already in the EEC". Our negotiators must be prepared to admit that we are not ready to compete with those other countries. We should endeavour to have a bargain made that where there is to be an expansion of French or German or British industry that expansion will take place in this country in order to provide employment for those who may be displaced or made redundant as a result of free trade. That is necessary.

I want to ask the Taoiseach what progress has already been made with regard to expansion of industries in this country. Have there been discussions with the Germans, the French and the British in relation to the establishment of new industries when we enter the EEC or are we to be the poor relation again? Should there not be a give and take in this matter? Why should all the gains be on one side? If there is to be industrial expansion by Germany, France or Italy, if there are to be certain agricultural facilities for the farmers in Denmark, will there not be some governing authority in Brussels to see that all this activity will not take place in those countries while an undeveloped area like Ireland may experience gross unemployment as a result of our entry into the EEC? We may have living standards falling as prices rise for housewife and consumer. Surely we are entitled to some concession? Surely we are entitled to the best part of the bargain?

We have not had any word from any Minister which would give us a ray of hope that there will be increased industrial expansion in this country when we enter the EEC. There is nothing easier for a Minister to do than to talk at a cumann, a comhairle ceanntair, a chamber of commerce or even a dance in rural Ireland but we are entitled to know the facts and to know in the event of our entry into Europe in 1972 or 1973 what industrial expansion we will get.

It is correct to say that we are going into Europe for what we can get out of it, not for the love of it. We are going in because Fine Gael believe it is the right thing for this country to take her place as a nation in Europe. We are not going in to become the pauper of Europe or to allow anybody else to make us the pauper of Europe. We are going in because we feel there is a hope that we will get some good from it. We are going in because we believe that there is prosperity in Europe which we may share. If there is prosperity in Europe do not let us leave the prosperity in that part which is cut away from us by the Irish sea. We want to get a share of that prosperity in our own country.

That is why I want the Minister for Industry and Commerce, or the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, or the Taoiseach to give the details here of what has been done to date. I say nothing has been done. I say these men are not competent to do anything in this regard. I further suggest that they would not have the confidence of the Danish, the French or the German Ministers. They certainly would not enjoy the confidence of the British Government in any negotiations. That is the only regret I have in connection with our entry into Europe. It will be mishandled because those in charge are not really capable. I am grateful that we have such a high standard in the Civil Service because it is the higher civil servants who will keep the Ministers on the rails.

I am not satisfied that our people are properly prepared. Indeed, I am convinced they are not prepared. Never in the history of this country have we been presented with such a huge and profitable market for everything we can make or produce. That is why Fine Gael are solidly behind Deputy Cosgrave in regard to our entry into Europe. We know it is the right thing to do. It will give our people an outlet for everything they can make or produce. The Irish have never been afraid of competition. I have every confidence in our Irish farmers, if Fianna Fáil gives them the chance. I have every confidence in our Irish industrialists, if they get a chance. I have every confidence that the Irish business man can conduct his business as efficiently as his opposite number on the Continent. Entry to the Common Market will give our country a wonderful opportunity of breaking new ground. We will be going in with friends. We are not going in with enemies. We will be going in with people who will help us. We are going in to make more friends. It should be our aim and ambition to reduce the numbers of our enemies and increase the numbers of our friends. We can make more friends in Europe and we can reduce the number of our enemies. Appreciating the great prosperity that is in Europe we are going in to get a share in that prosperity.

Critics of the Common Market say that when we go into Europe "we have had it". However irrelevant repetition is, we should repeat over and over again, for the benefit of our EEC critics both inside and outside this House, that the EEC rules and regulations are not fixed for all time. If there are commitments which might not be in the best interests of this country our representatives in the European Parliament will not be dumb; they will not be tongue-tied. To use Mr. Paisley's phrase: they will not have cottonwool in their ears. They will be men, appointed by this House, for the purpose of serving our interests. If there are certain things that need to be changed or altered to suit prevailing circumstances here, then these things can be changed. Is there anything fairer than that? This argument that membership of the EEC commits us to buying a pig in a poke is not correct. It is clearly stated that the laws, rules and regulations can be changed. They are not fixed for all time.

With regard to economic development, thanks to Fianna Fáil, we will have no difficulty in producing the necessary certificate of qualification to prove that we are an undeveloped country. That is the result of 35 years of Fianna Fáil government. We trust that whoever is responsible for making Ireland's case will make a strong case so that we will get the best possible share of European funds to assist our economic development. I have not heard anything about any efforts made to obtain sums for the purpose of converting this country from its undeveloped state into a developed state. I do not know if any survey has been carried out as to requirements in order to make our country one with a high economic standard. The time has come when the Taoiseach, or some responsible Minister, must put all the cards on the table and indicate what the future plans for economic development are and what safeguards there will be for our workers in the event of our accession to the EEC. There will have to be a clear understanding with the French, the Italians and the Germans about the establishment of industries here to compensate for any loss of employment which may be caused by entry into the EEC.

Fine Gael, as I said, was not influenced by the activities of Fianna Fáil in relation to our application. We approve of entry because we believe entry is in the best interests of this country. We must bear in mind that the main organisations representing industry made it clear they favour membership; that the principal farming organisations—NFA and so on—have made it clear that, so far as Irish agriculture is concerned, they favour this country's entry into the EEC.

I cannot understand why so many people are critical of progress. They speak of certain defence commitments. It is only right to put on record that, at this time, membership involves no such commitment. They complain that when we enter into Europe the Irish language will go, that Irish culture will fade and that we shall lose our independence. All that is poppycock. If people have not respect for the Irish language before we go into Europe they will not have respect for it afterwards. The same case can be made for Irish culture. Membership of EEC will strengthen our economy. A lot of time is spent bargaining with Britain for markets. Our ambassadors and representatives spend much time seeking markets for, for example, certain kinds of fish we export to France. In a clearer and more defined way we can convey the fact that we are a nation with a voice in Europe. We have our own language, our own culture, our own country. That is why I feel that membership, at this stage, does not involve commitments.

Reading down through the Treaty of Rome or any other code of regulations governing the EEC, can we not ask ourselves a few simple questions? What are the gains? What are the losses? What are the prospects? Are the gains not likely to be greater than the losses? Are the prospects, with entry, not likely to be greater than if we remain isolated from the Community? Is the most courageous step not to go forward?

To those critical of the future of the Irish language within Europe may I say that, whether we are in or out of Europe, an Irishman who has not regard for his own language is not worth his salt. All of us know that we have a duty in this country—just as the French have a duty, as the Danes have a duty, as the Italians have a duty—to sponsor, to encourage and to cherish our own language. I cannot see that our entry into Europe will minimise our efforts to sponsor and to foster the Irish language as our national language. Great strides have been made in recent times in so far as the Irish language is concerned. Very recently, I was present at a function in a vocational school in my constituency where, at the one time, no fewer than 53 Fáinní were presented to Irish speakers. Does anyone mean to tell me that, because we enter Europe, these people will lose respect and love for their own language? We cherish our language. We believe and have faith in our language. No matter what the critics may say, the Irish language will never die; it will never be allowed to die. I am convinced there are parts of this country where there is greater usage of the Irish language today than ever before. If we enter Europe, I venture to say that it can prove one of the best challenges to the Irish language. Because of our association with our brother-Europeans, then and then alone will we stand up, hold up our heads and say, in effect: "We have our own language just as the French have their language, just as the Italians have their language and just as the Germans have their language." This will be a means by which greater interest will be taken in the revival to the fullest of the Irish language.

I honestly think that the case put forward by critics of our entry into Europe, if it is based on the survival or the progress of the Irish language, is along the wrong lines. My opinion is that it will have the opposite effect to what they feel it will have. I think it will bring a greater awareness and a greater sense of responsibility, a greater sense of duty, a greater sense of nationalism. Our people will be proud of their language. They will encourage its usage and speak it. That is why I disagree with the argument that when we go into Europe the Irish language and Irish pastimes and cultures will finish. That is all poppycock. If you create competition, if you create obstacles or difficulties, people will overcome them. That is why I feel our language will prosper. I believe that when we enter Europe there will be a greater awareness of Ireland and its cultural heritage amongst the member countries which will encourage rather than hinder the Irish language and Irish culture at its best.

I want to refer to the question of involvement in any military commitments against our will. There is no such question. I have not read it in any document connected with Ireland's entry into the EEC. There are people who are extremely worried about our policy of neutrality. Our policy of neutrality was decided upon during the 1939 to 1945 war. We are now living in what can be described, perhaps, as a new world.

Debate adjourned.
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