Before Questions I was saying that the fishing industry of any nation can be divided into three parts: (1) fishing in distant waters — where Ireland is concerned this would be fishing in the west Atlantic or around Iceland or Greenland, (2) fishing in nearer waters, up to about 60 miles from the coast, and (3) inshore fishing. We have about 200 boats capable of operating in the middle water and it is from this area the largest proportion of fish landings come. Obviously it is in this area that the greatest expansion can be achieved. The lucrative herring fishing grounds are found in this middle water and herring landings amounted to 682 cwt. in the past year, valued at £783,000. The remainder of the fishing fleet operates close to the coast and in the shell-fishing beds in the inshore waters.
The herring fishing around our coasts could be further developed and exploited if a special herring fishing industry board were set up. There is a need to promote the sale of herrings at home and abroad and to apply the benefits of technical progress to this industry. A board such as this could apply their full energies, if they were staffed by the people who are close to that particular branch of the industry, to ensure that new methods of catching, processing and distribution of herrings are investigated and put into effect. In this area vast strides could be made and could give a valuable return both in exports and home consumption.
The Parliamentary Secretary told us the number of fishing vessels at present operating and the number of fishermen working on the boats. There is grave concern among people who are making repayments on boats and who hope to own boats in the future. The recent "Seven Days" television exposé on the purchase of nine French fishing boats by Irish skippers brought to light the great blunder that was made by people who have been put in positions of power in the fishing industry. The building of these boats in France was a great blow to the craftsmen, shipwrights and other workers in the boat-building industry here. This is a blow to employment generally but the fact that £500,000 of the taxpayers' hard earned money has been spent on shoddy boats by An Bord Iascaigh Mhara on behalf of fishermen is a great blow to the confidence that is required in this industry if it is to prosper and expand. It is to the credit of people like Muiris MacConghaill and the staff of "Seven Days" that in spite of the troubles they have had in the past year in dealing with topics like this they were able to bring this great scandal to light for the general public. The fact that these boats could have been built here and the fact that taxpayers' money has been spent abroad is bad enough, but that people who should know better have spent this large amount of money without first going into every aspect of the purchase and having qualified people examine every piece of material that went into the building of these boats shows a great lack of interest in the whole fishing industry. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will see that this never happens again in the area under his control.
We had a flourishing fishing port in Arklow. We also had, and, indeed still have, a boat-building concern in Arklow but unfortunately many of the men connected with these two industries are finding it more lucrative to go into other areas of employment because the work is just not there. These men are craftsmen. They know the business. Their families have been connected with it for generations. That craft is being allowed to die in a place like Arklow, and I am sure in other areas, while we spend £500,000 of public money abroad and put this money into the pockets of people who have no regard for their product or for the people whose lives are risked going to sea in these boats.
In relation to manpower we are told here that a school is being set up at Greencastle for the purpose of training school leavers for the fishing industry. This is to be lauded by us here although it may be a pity that only one school is being opened. Nevertheless, it is a beginning and I hope that the response will be so good as to encourage the Parliamentary Secretary to open further establishments.
It is gratifying that young people in their twenties are prepared to take boats that are worth many thousands of pounds. If these people are trained they can make a very useful contribution to our general balance of payments by effecting increased fish landings. These young people can show tremendous example to other young people in the community by letting them see what can be done if the opportunity is available.
It has been mentioned that 170 people were trained during the past five years. If we are to achieve the figure set out in the Third Programme and if we are to keep pace with competition from abroad there is a need for many hundreds of full-time, fully trained fishermen. I realise that the problem of recruiting young people for training is creating a bottleneck in the expansion of the industry and, consequently, in the expansion of the return to the country as a whole. Perhaps the training could be broadened and varied a little more and that the existing schemes could be developed still further.
As I have said, in one area of the fishing industry there was not even one Irish boat in operation. If we had an ocean-going fishing boat for training purposes it would be possible to broaden the training. I suggest to the Minister that a joint industrial council for the industry be set up to cover conditions of employment. There are many improvements that could be made in relation to rates of pay and conditions of employment. If such a council were established it would be to the betterment of the conditions of all those employed in the industry.
Mention has been made at length about the conditions of harbours and I have already mentioned the harbour in my own constituency. According to the brief, considerable improvements are being carried out to the smaller harbours which are under the jurisdiction of the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries. Of course, the major ports are the responsibility of the Department of Transport and Power. Although fishing is carried on from some of these ports, such as Wicklow town and Arklow, which also is under the aegis of the Department of Transport and Power, there is a need for a coming together of each of the Departments that have an interest in the fishing industry so that work can be done not only in the five major fishery harbours but so that improvements can be made to any harbour or any port that would warrant such improvements. I know that, in so far as some of the smaller ports are concerned where the work is done mainly by part-time fishermen, landing facilities are very poor. I am aware that in one instance a group of fishermen in Wicklow town wrote to the Wicklow Harbour Board requesting them to provide a shelter for fishing gear and for the bedding of lines during the cod fishing season. The board got in touch with the Department of Transport and Power who told them that the Department had no function in the matter and therefore, were not in a position to come to the aid of the fishermen. They suggested that the fishermen should seek the help of Bord Fáilte or some such other body. Having approached bodies like Bord Fáilte and An Bord Iascaigh Mhara they have found that there are not available any grants that would improve the lot of this type of fisherman.
This is an aspect which the Parliamentary Secretary should consider. It would not be too expensive if there was provided a shed or boathouse or any small shelter in which men could store their gear near to the harbours, whereas the building of their own sheds would cut deep into the budget of part-time fishermen. On the other hand, if they were to receive a grant towards the cost I am sure they would not be slow to provide the balance themselves.
The question of marketing has been mentioned also by the Parliamentary Secretary. He referred to the efforts of Bord Iascaigh Mhara in this direction and we are given some details of what is being done in relation to advertising and public relations both on the home market and abroad. In my view, harsh comment can be made in this regard. As we all know, the price of meat has increased to such an extent that it is possible for the average household to provide meat only on one or two days of the week. The obvious substitute for meat in a country like ours is fish. However the price of fish at the moment is nothing short of a national scandal. There is a great difference between the price one would pay for fish at a pier and the price that would be paid for it in the shops. We have now reached the stage where fish is costing as much as some of the more expensive cuts of meat.
Those of us who live in fishing ports or near fishing harbours are aware that at certain times of the year there is a glut of fish on the market and that fishermen have almost to give the fish away. At other times fish is scarce and following market trends the price is much higher, but at no stage is there any great variation in the price of fish in the shops. Those of us who have to eat in restaurants in the city know that a fish which may cost 1s. in the port of Arklow will appear on the menu of the restaurant in the Dáil or some other restaurant as part of a meal costing 6s., 10s. or even a little more.
The price of fish never varies whether there is a large or a small quantity available. This is because certain private people have large freezing establishments and they are able to buy fish at a very low price when glut conditions prevail, store it up and when a shortage comes they sell the fish and keep the ceiling price all the year around. An Bord Iascaigh Mhara, the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries, the Prices Section of the Department of Industry and Commerce and even the Fair Trade Commission would be well employed investigating the price of fish and ensuring that fish is made available at a reasonable price, giving everybody from the fishermen who land the fish, the people who transport it from the quays, the wholesaler and the shopkeeper, a reasonable return. This is not the case at the moment and there is certainly a need for investigation.
There is another area of our imports which comes under the heading of marketing—fish and fish preparations —and it showed an increase in the past year of £125,000 or over 50 per cent on the 1968 figure. No details have been given by the Parliamentary Secretary of what is included in these imports but I think this is the importation of the preparation known as fish fingers. We could turn our attention to this and reduce this amount almost to nil. We have the fresh fish available and we could easily have plant set up to process this fish, reduce our balance of payments by that amount and give worthwhile employment in that particular section.
The Parliamentary Secretary said when fishermen turn from one type of fishing to another, say from white fishing to herring fishing, we have to import this type of fish. If we had proper plants the processing of this type of fish could go on when glut conditions prevail and fish would be available to consumers when there is a shortage. There are people who never set foot on a trawler, who do not have to risk their lives or those of their friends, and who are making big money in this industry.
Notice taken that 20 Members were not present; House counted, and 20 Members being present,
