Vol. 250 No. 2
asked the Minister for Justice if his attention has been drawn to a report that a tragedy was narrowly averted when children took gelignite from a CIE delivery truck; if he considers that sufficient precautions were taken by CIE; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
7.
asked the Minister for Justice if his attention has been drawn to a report that sticks of gelignite came into the hands of children in Dublin on Thursday, 26th November; that this gelignite was owned by CIE; that a Garda escort was in operation on the route on which the gelignite was being moved; if the Garda have investigated the matter; if so, with what result; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
8.
asked the Minister for Justice if his attention has been drawn to a report that gelignite was taken by children from a delivery truck; that this gelignite was the property of CIE; and that it was being moved on a route with a Garda escort; if this incident has been investigated; and if he will make a statement in regard to it.
9.
asked the Minister for Justice if his attention has been drawn to a report of a theft of gelignite in transit by CIE; if so, whether he is satisfied with the safety precautions taken; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
10.
asked the Minister for Justice whether there are any security regulations laid down for the transport of gelignite in built up areas; whether Garda escorts are provided; if his attention has been drawn to a recent report regarding gelignite falling into the hands of children; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 6,7,8,9 and 10 together.
The rules governing the transport of explosives are contained in a statutory instrument entitled the Conveyance of Explosives Byelaws, 1955 (S.I. No. 38 of 1955). Byelaw 9, paragraph (g), places on all persons engaged in the conveyance of explosives a specific obligation to take all due precautions for preventing unauthorised persons having access to the explosives.
The provision of Garda protection for vehicles carrying explosives depends on the amount being carried but, where protection is provided, its purpose is to deal with any attempted hold-up, and the type of arrangement made is geared to this objective. The Garda do not, and cannot, undertake to relieve the carrier of his responsibility to guard against pilfering any more than they could relieve a firearms dealer of his obligation to guard his stock of cartridges against pilfering. There was in fact no garda accompanying this vehicle. There was in operation a security system, details of which I am not in a position to reveal, designed, as I have said, to deal with any attempt at a hold-up.
It is a matter for the carrier to decide whether his duty to prevent pilfering should be discharged by using a secure system of locking the vehicle or by having some person accompany the vehicle to keep a look-out, but events have shown that sufficient precautions were not taken on this occasion in an area where, I understand, attempts to pilfer from vehicles stopped at traffic lights had occurred on other occasions. In saying this, I do not feel it is for me to seek to cast blame on anybody in CIE for what has occurred. I am concerned only to ensure that there will not be a repetition and the necessary representations have already been made to CIE to this effect.
Will the Minister not take into consideration also the fact that the gelignite was stolen by children on this occasion?
I am aware that it is alleged the gelignite was stolen by children.
Would the Minister not be of the opinion that there should be an inquiry into the matter in CIE?
That is a matter for CIE.
My question was addressed to some Minister who must accept responsibility for this. It was not addressed specifically to the Minister for Justice. There should be an inquiry into the matter.
Is the Minister not aware that we are dealing with a highly explosive——
Situation.
——material? We are aware of the highly explosive situation on those benches over there but I do not wish such a situation to prevail throughout the country generally and certainly we have no wish that children should play with such dynamite. Surely the Minister should have taken the necessary precautions when it was known to him—at least it should have been—that a highly explosive consignment was in transit. The Minister's answer is stupid.
The regulations make it perfectly clear that the liability rests entirely with the carrier. In the circumstances I do not wish to say whether the carrier complied with the regulations on this occasion.
Can the Minister say if gardai accompanied any previous consignment on any other occasion?
There were gardai on patrol on the route over which the explosives were carried but, for obvious reasons, I cannot give any details.
Question No. 11.
Can the Minister say if such highly explosive material is transported at any particular time of the day or evening?
It is a matter for the carrier to arrange the time of transportation.
Can the Minister say if gardai were on special patrol while this material was being carried? Further, since this incident has occurred, will the Minister investigate the matter?
I have investigated the situation. The route over which this material was carried was a long one and the Deputy will appreciate that we could not have a guard on duty every 10 or 20 yards of the road.
Can the Minister say if the truck was locked?
No.
Should it have been locked?
The regulations do not specify that it should but I would imagine that any carrier should have regard to commonsense and ensure that any truck carrying such material would be locked.
Is it the Minister's intention to amend the regulations?
