asked the Minister for Transport and Power whether he has conveyed any views to CIE on the manner in which they are managing the CIE Superannuation Scheme 1951; and, if so, the nature of such views.
22.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - CIE Superannuation.
21.
asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he will state in respect of each of the years 1965 to 1970 the total amount of money paid in contributions to the CIE Superannuation Scheme, 1951.
23.
asked the Minister for Transport and Power where the funds of the CIE Superannuation Scheme, 1951 are lodged or invested; and if he will state in respect of each of the years 1965 to 1970 the amount of interest derived from lodgments or investments.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to answer Questions Nos. 21, 22 and 23 together.
The Deputy seems to be under a misapprehension as to how superannution schemes, such as the CIE schemes, are managed. The 1951 superannuation scheme for CIE employees is not managed by the company. The scheme is administered by a committee of eight persons of whom four are appointed by CIE and four are elected by the members. I have no reason to believe that the committee is not managing the fund in due and proper manner.
The replies to Questions Nos. 21 and 22 are in the form of a tabular statement which, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to circulate with the Official Report.
Following is the information requested:
1. Total amount of money paid in contributions to CIE Superannuation Scheme, 1951. (The figures include both employees and CIE contributions):
|
£ |
|
|
1965 |
258,886 |
|
1966 |
243,730 |
|
1967 |
255,486 |
|
1968 |
281,884 |
|
1969 |
319,080 |
|
1970 |
357,678 |
2.1. Lodgments and investments:
The funds of the Schemes are invested in Trustee Stocks.
2.2. Amount of interest derived from lodgments/investments:
|
£ |
|
|
1965 |
133,695 |
|
1966 |
158,171 |
|
1967 |
184,980 |
|
1968 |
219,703 |
|
1969 |
277,795 |
|
1970 |
287,593 |
I will refer the Minister to an answer he gave me last week. He told me in this House that I would get information in the Official Report in the form of a tabular statement. I will read out what was in that statement and then I will ask a question. I quote:
Following is the information requested—
1. Number of CIE employees covered by the CIE Superannuation Scheme, 1951:
2,427
2. (i) Total amount in Fund at 31/12/70:
£5,326,378
(ii) Total amount paid in pensions in 1970 and five preceding years:
|
1970 — |
£58,151 |
|
1969 — |
£47,044 |
|
1968 — |
£38,971 |
|
1967 — |
£35,495 |
|
1966 — |
£34,791 |
|
1965 — |
£28,182 |
The interest on that £5 million alone would be at least £½ million a year. What is being done with that money?
I am quite willing to get the members of the committee to work out the actuarial details of this fund. I am not going to engage in an actuarial exercise here.
These fellows covered it twice over.
(Interruptions.)
How does the Minister stand over allowing £5 million to lie stagnant when unfortunate people all over the country are complaining about the disgracefully low pensions which they are receiving? I had a letter from a man who wishes to go on unemployment assistance because it will not be subject to income tax, whereas his pension under this scheme would be subject to income tax.
I have had fruitful and constructive meetings with the trade unions concerned with these matters and with the CIE Pensioners' Association. I hope we will continue to have such constructive and fruitful meetings.
The Minister referred to actuarial exercises. One does not need to be an actuary in order to work out this sum. Is it not a fact that the amount of pensions being paid out of the scheme represents 1 per cent of the total amount, while 10 per cent is being received in interest? Money put in Government loans can get 10 per cent. One per cent is being paid out and some pensioners are getting £100 per annum. Who is using the money? What is happening the money which these people have paid in?
Some of them will be dead before anything happens.
If the Deputy will put down a comprehensive question in relation to this fund I will have a comprehensive reply prepared.
(Interruptions.)
I will have a comprehensive reply prepared to any question put down by the Deputy about the administration of the fund.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.