asked the Minister for Health the estimated total cost of the new health scheme on a national basis; and when the estimate was made.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Health Scheme Cost.
6.
I assume that the Deputy is referring to the proposed abolition of the dispensary system and to the introduction of a choice of doctor scheme.
It is estimated that the annual cost of providing such a service would be of the order of £7,750,000. This is a current estimate of cost.
Can the Minister say if this includes the cost of the new bureaucratic structure recommended in the McKinsey Report or is it only the estimated cost of paying the doctors?
This is the abolition of the dispensary system and the introduction of a choice of doctor scheme. It does not relate to the general plan for the promoting of proper management within the health boards which is being proposed by the firm of consultants whom I think are doing very well in regard to this and I disagree with the Deputy in relation to his comments.
Would the Minister——
Question No. 7.
——be able to state on what basis this figure is arrived at?
It is based on an approximate estimate of the visiting rates by doctors which is 3½ visits per patient per annum. Another estimate has been done on the cost of drugs and medicines. We must make an estimation as to the number of prescriptions that would be presented by doctors to patients and the estimate is about £600,000 more than the estimated cost of dispensary service during 1972-73 if that service were to be continued on the present basis and on the present level of salaries and so on.
Does the Minister consider an estimate of 3½ visits per patient per annum to be reasonable? Did he get that information from figures supplied by Britain?
It was based on a number of studies that were carried out. It would take me too long to give the Deputy details of all the sources of information. There was a study carried out in the North, both in rural and in urban areas, and the number of services per day that doctors undertook varied from 25 to 29. Various estimates were made in regard to this matter.
Would the Minister not agree——
I am calling Question No. 7.
——that the lower income group of patients make greater demands on doctors than those in the middle and upper classes?
I daresay that is possible.
I would point out to the Minister that my question asked what was the estimated total cost of the new health scheme, whereas the Minister's reply has merely given me the cost of paying the doctors. Would the Minister not agree that a very important part of the cost of this new scheme will be the administration costs of the bureaucracy that he has established?
I would not agree.
Is the Minister not ashamed that with every Ministry he has been associated costs have skyrocketed? When he was in Posts and Telegraphs the cost of the postage stamp was doubled?
Perhaps the Deputy wants the health services reduced.
The Deputy wants reasonable economy from the Minister.
I am doing my utmost to ensure a proper streamlining of the health services.
(Interruptions.)
Order.
The Deputy is completely ignorant of the subject as is obvious from his remarks.