andDr. O'Connell asked the Taoiseach whether he has considered the statement issued by the British Home Secretary on Friday, 23rd July; if so, with what result; whether he regards the statement as representing a change in British policy on Northern Ireland; and if he will now seek urgent discussions with the British Prime Minister.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Northern Ireland Situation.
1.
I have seen the statement issued by the British Home Office on Friday, 23rd July, and the reply made by Mr. Royle, UnderSecretary of State at Westminster, on Monday, 26th July, in relation to my speech at the Garden of Remembrance on 11th July. I regard the former statement as being directed against the use of violence in the North. The main criticism of Mr. Royle seems to be that the timing of my remarks, rather than their substance, was unhelpful. In this connection I wish to remind the House again that I was speaking on the 50th anniversary of the Anglo-Irish Truce. It was appropriate that I should, at that stage, assess the progress of Anglo-Irish relations, particularly in the light of continuing instability in the North and with a view to inducing a more constructive approach. The timing of the Orange Parades was irrelevant to my remarks which on this and on all other occasions are solely directed to achieving peace and understanding between all Irishmen.
I adhere to my view that the restoration of Irish unity is the ultimate political condition which will end instability in the North and this is pertinent at all times. I believe that responsible opinion here and elsewhere will agree that the type of guarantee as to their constitutional position given up to now to the Northern majority is not conducive to progress towards reconciliation in the North and between North and South. Therefore I believe that that guarantee should be reformulated in such a positive way as to encourage people to look for a lasting solution.
This is what I asked for on July 11th. I want to assert that I was in no way indicating any change in the Government's view that Irish unity should come about by agreement reached through peaceful means. I fully realise that this will take time and patience.
It seems to me that the minority have become concerned about the delay by the Stormont Government in implementing the Downing Street Declaration—a delay which is partially responsible for the disillusionment now prevalent amongst the minority. Ultimate responsibility for its implementation remains with the Westminster Parliament and Government. I am not aware of any change in British policy away from the Downing Street Declaration although I must confess to disappointment about the delay in implementing it.
I hold no brief for those who engage in violence in the present grave situation. Their activities are totally opposed to the interests and legitimate demands of the minority in the North and to any progress in the direction of Irish unity. They have succeeded only in distracting British public opinion from their abhorrence of the customary intolerance and bigotry of right-wing Unionism to abhorrence of the reprehensible behaviour of intolerant individuals on the other side.
I want to say also that I consider it to be an act of violence to peace and harmony in any community to arrange sectarian parades into areas where the people are known to be humiliated by them and to resent them.
I ask the House and, through the House, the whole community to realise that a dangerous state of tension exists in the North. We must act and speak with restraint, and do everything we can to secure peace while legitimate political means continue to be used to obtain justice and equality of treatment for everyone in the North.
In reply to the last part of the Deputies' question, I wish to say that in accordance with the agreement reached last October in New York, Mr. Heath has invited me to visit London on 20th and 21st October and I have accepted his invitation.
In view of the fact that the Taoiseach considered the situation in the North so serious in the early part of last year and seeing that he announced to this House that he would seek an immediate meeting with the then British Prime Minister, Mr. Harold Wilson, does he not now think it might be too late if he were to defer a meeting with Mr. Heath in view of some of the remarks he has made here today with regard to what I would describe as provocative parades? Would the Taoiseach not, therefore, stress the urgency of a meeting between himself and Mr. Heath and to have not alone a redeclaration of the Downing Street Declaration but a declaration of intent to carry out the immediate reforms and concessions which were contained in that particular statement by Major Chichester Clark and by Mr. Wilson?
There is nothing that I can see now in seeking an immediate meeting with Mr. Heath that could convince him more than what we have already said in relation to the implementation of the Downing Street Declaration and in relation to the avoidance of the provocative parades. Our views have been conveyed in a most strong and direct manner in these respects. I do not think there is anything more I could add to the manner in which we have conveyed these views.
Would the Taoiseach not consider discussions between Stormont, Dublin, London and the Opposition in Stormont at the present time?
I would. I would be glad to take part in that kind of discussion if it could be arranged, but in the meantime it is important that I have fixed a specific date for my meeting with Mr. Heath and it is important, too, that time be given for an agenda to be drawn up, because it will be a wide ranging discussion.
Does the Taoiseach understand the explosive situation there could be in Northern Ireland within the next 12 or 14 days?
I do. I understand it.
Would the Taoiseach not take the initiative? The Taoiseach said he would be pleased to participate in such discussions. Would he not be prepared to take the initiative?
While accepting and understanding the nature of the Taoiseach's reply, could I suggest to the Taoiseach that in relation to the holding of what has been termed the provocative parades could he ensure as a matter of urgency that his views— and I would assume the views of everybody in this House—are made immediately known in all appropriate quarters?
That has been done.
On how many occasions in the past six months has the Taoiseach sought discussions with Mr. Heath and with what results?
I made an arrangement with Mr. Heath when I met him at the United Nations 25th Anniversary Commemorations in New York last year that we would have a meeting in the course of this year. The meeting now arranged is in fulfilment of that agreement on that occasion.
I asked the Taoiseach on how many occasions in the past six months has he sought discussions with Mr. Heath and with what results?
There is a danger in view of the October date that consideration of a matter of this kind may be postponed until then whereas it, in fact, may be urgent now.
I would assure the Deputy and the House that we have urged consideration of these matters. I have urged it directly myself and also through the Minister for Foreign Affairs. I have no doubt whatever that the British Government know well our views and feelings about these parades.
I asked the Taoiseach on how many occasions in the past six months has he sought discussions with Mr. Heath and with what results?
Does that imply that I must go seeking a meeting on numerous occasions in the course of a short period with the British Prime Minister? I knew in October last that we would be having a meeting in the course of this year. In the meantime I suggested that that meeting should be held. The meeting has now been arranged.
You have not answered that question.
That is a separate question.
Is it true that you were fobbed off on a few occasions and treated like a servile——
(Interruptions.)
Order, order.
This is another typical example of statement by innuendo. It is entirely untrue and a figment of the Deputy's imagination, or of somebody else's imagination.
(Interruptions.)
You were fobbed off.
With all the credability that I have, I say that I was on no occasion fobbed off by the British Prime Minister.
We cannot have a debate on this question all evening.
Could I ask the Taoiseach whether if the representations he has made with regard to this question of parades do not meet with a positive response in good time he will take further initiative towards direct contact with a view to ensuring that his views are put personally, face-to-face and effectively?
I will take direct initiative, but that initiative will have to be within my own judgment. It will have to be seen to achieve the best results.
Would the Taoiseach say whether Mr. Faulkner will be present at the meeting?
I cannot say. There is no arrangement made with Mr. Faulkner.
Could the Taoiseach say if in the preparation of this agenda any element, such as his Garden of Remembrance speech, will be touched on?
The agenda has not yet been arranged.
Has the Taoiseach made any proposals to the British Government in relation to the suggestion that the British Government should guarantee that the constitutional position of Northern Ireland should be reformulated? Has he made any detailed proposals as to how it should be reformulated?
No detailed proposals.
I, and Deputy O'Connell, have been trying to establish and stress our view that the Taoiseach should have, so far as he could, tried to insist on discussions with Mr. Heath long before October.
We all feel that.
That view would be held generally in the House.
If I felt that I could in a more direct, positive and stronger way convey the views that have already been conveyed, then I would favourably consider that suggestion.