It is proposed to take No. 22 (Votes 43 and 38) on the Order Paper. Questions will be taken from 2 p.m. to 5 p.m.
Order of Business.
I want to appeal to the Taoiseach and to the Government to make time available immediately for discussion of the Six County situation. I did not press this thing to the degree that I would have done had I realised that it was in the nature of not just a gesture of sympathy or adjournment the other day but rather seemed to spread itself a little further. I want to indicate clearly, without any question, that in asking for this I am not asking for it by way of provocation or in order to tell people how right I or anybody else has been in regard to this whole situation for quite a long time, but because of the fact that every government that has anything to do with this has already discussed it by way of emergency debate, including even what we would regard as the slow-moving House of Lords, and I believe now the House of Representatives in America. Here we are, an Irish Government, not giving time and apparently not regarding it as urgent, not regarding a discussion here as of any value. I would appeal, without saying anything further at this juncture, to the Government and to the Taoiseach to give us time here today and tomorrow to discuss this very important matter so that the views of the people of this country, which should be expressed through us in this House rather than that they should have to express their views outside this House in other ways, may be made known.
Further arising on the Order of Business I, too, would like that the Government would alter their decision on the Order of Business today. It is evident over the last few days that the people have shown very clearly that they are in fact three steps ahead of the Government. We should be very concerned that this House would not tend to be as irrelevant, as a growing number of people throughout the country actually believe it is, as the Stormont regime in the North.
I have no desire to postpone a debate on this. The Order of Business has been agreed between the Whips. I would be prepared to give time, and today if possible, for a short while to have this debate. Questions have been arranged from 2 o'clock to 5 o'clock. I would be prepared to replace that with a short debate or to have one hour's questions and a short debate after that for two or three hours.
Do I understand that in this instance I, representing Aontacht Éireann, will be called and that this debate will not be limited to statements by the three parties?
We have no agreement yet. I am only making a suggestion. Every Deputy in the House is entitled to speak.
I acknowledge the Taoiseach's indication of his intention to make time available. Might I say further, in addition to what Deputy Sherwin said, that the two or three hours could be worse that useless. It would be just impossible to try and get any number of people in. I would further appeal to the Taoiseach and to the Government to think in terms of utilising not only the time today, whether after Questions or before, but tomorrow should be used as well. While appreciating the indication of time made available by the Government, anything less than today and tomorrow would not really be meeting the case at all and indeed could be little more than useless.
I suggest that the Whips might meet and discuss arrangements.
Yes. I would say in relation to Deputy Blaney's suggestion about meeting tomorrow that he knows better than many other people in the House that it is one matter to extend a day's sitting but it is another matter to make a new day's sitting on the eve of that day, knowing the commitments that Deputies and Ministers have.
I apologise for being persistent in this matter. The matter of whether or not it is procedure or precedent is surely not quite relevant in the circumstances. I agree in the normal way that sittings of the House are something of which, for the benefit and indeed the convenience of all concerned, we need to have as much notice as possible. But the urgency for this and the necessity for it is so great that any question of precedent, procedure or of our convenience I do not think necessarily arises here to the same degree as it would in normal business. I would again appeal that time be made available as early as possible today and that the House sit tomorrow.
I will make only one comment. Deputy Blaney spoke about emergency debates in other Houses on occasions like this. In other Parliaments, in other Houses, they can limit the hours in which these debates take place and they can arrange to limit the length of speeches. I think it ought to be possible for us, too, and we will have a discussion between the Whips to see if this can be done.
The Taoiseach will concede that a three-hour debate would be absolutely inadequate in present circumstances.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
It is true that some of us had an opportunity of expressing certain views here on Tuesday but I think the House is entitled to have the maximum amount of time possible. I am not suggesting it should be an open-end debate. My concern is that it would be a reasonable and restrained debate in view of the awful situation we are in now and which could get worse in another few days.
I would leave it to the Whips to see if they can arrange a reasonable length of time.
I should like to say one final word. Surely we should in this House consider that we are acting on behalf of the people. During the past few days the people, en masse, in every part of the country, have shown how they feel. We should be given adequate time at least to try to express the people's feelings. We are not in an ivory tower. We cannot withdraw ourselves completely from the people although we have seen occasions where we have not been expressing the views of the people.
Do I understand the Taoiseach to say that the Whips will meet to have a discussion on this?
That is the usual procedure.
I am glad to hear it. I hope Deputy Blaney will be informed of the arrangements.
Every Deputy who is looking for information will be informed, not just one Deputy.
Perhaps I should put it this way to the Taoiseach. What we should like to know is whether we could have some indication that the Whips having met, the House will be so informed in some sort of official way.
That a pronouncement be made by the Chair.
We will get the Whips together immediately.