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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 23 Mar 1972

Vol. 259 No. 15

Adjournment Debate: Television Programme Statement.

(Cavan): At Question Time yesterday, Deputy O'Donnell, spokesman for the Fine Gael Party on Transport and Power, put down a question to the Minister for Transport and Power asking the Minister whether he has now investigated the statements made recently by a director of Bord Fáilte on the BBC programme “24 Hours”, and, if so, if he will state his findings and what action he proposes to take in the matter. Because of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I considered it my bounden duty to raise this matter on the Adjournment. Before going into the matter, I should like to say that I do so with the full approval and consent of the spokesman for Transport and Power, Deputy O'Donnell.

I should also like to explain to the House that my reason for intervening in Deputy O'Donnell's question by way of supplementary question was because on Tuesday night last I watched the television programme, "7 Days", which dealt with the previous "24 Hours" programme on which a director of Bord Fáilte, Mr. Evans, appeared and dealt with the tourist difficulties in this country.

I had not known that Deputy O'Donnell had put down the question and, were it not for the fact that I saw this "7 Days" programme on Tuesday night, I would not have put any supplementary question. I want to say to you now and to the House that I was absolutely horrified at the "7 Days" programme which was a reproduction of the "24 Hours" programme on the BBC. I was so incensed that, when I heard Deputy O'Donnell raising the matter here, I availed of the opportunity to intervene. I say that to explain to you and to the House why I, who had not put down the question, have now raised this matter on the Adjournment.

It is a well-known fact that the tourist industry here is second only to the agricultural industry. In fact, until the deplorable handling of the national situation by this Government, it was running neck and neck with the agricultural industry. It is very proper that we should have a Bord Fáilte to deal with the tourist industry, to encourage foreigners to come here and spend their money here. It is also very proper that we should have on that board people with considerable experience in the tourist industry, hoteliers who are held in the highest esteem and who do an excellent job. Before I go further I want to say—it may be a reflection on myself or on my lack of finance—that I never heard of Mr. Evans until Tuesday night when I looked in at this "7 Days" programme, but I have since learned a number of things about him: I have learned that he is a first-class hotelier and that the way in which he runs his hotel in Glenbeigh is a credit to the nation. I want to go on record as saying that.

It is only proper that a man like him should be a member of Bord Fáilte, but it is also very important that men like him should behave in a responsible way and in the interests of the tourist industry. I am sure that the amount of money paid to Mr. Evans as a director of Bord Fáilte is a mere pittance to him. I am sure that he is not on Bord Fáilte for the fee that he is paid, but he is paid a fee and he does get travelling expenses. It is, therefore, in the interests of this country that he behaves in a responsible manner. That is particularly so at this time when, as the Minister for Transport and Power will say, because of the activities in Northern Ireland, we are going through a difficult period. Because of a lack of leadership, and because we have no Government in this country, we are going through an exceptionally difficult period as far as the tourist industry is concerned. Because of absurd actions, like the burning of the British Embassy, we are in a particularly difficult situation. It is then all the more important in our interests that our State-appointed, publicly paid members of Bord Fáilte, directors of that body, should behave in a responsible way.

I want to say, as the Minister said yesterday, that there is no antagonism towards the British public in this country and, when I say no antagonism, I mean that there is in every country a lunatic fringe and there is a lunatic fringe in this country. By and large, however, responsible people have nothing against the British public or foreign tourists. They appreciate the injection they give to the economy. That is a fact. My own constituency of Cavan is a Border constituency but there is no worthwhile objection in that constituency to the British public coming here. I believe they are welcome. As far as I am concerned, they are very welcome and I am glad that those were the sentiments of the Minister yesterday in his attempt to cover up for this well-intentioned but completely irresponsible member of Bord Fáilte.

I make the Minister a present of the fact that, while this man is a director of Bord Fáilte and was introduced as a director of Bord Fáilte, he said he was speaking as a private hotelier. When he was asked did he think this was not a year for English people to come to Ireland he answered "Yes". I concede this was a 17-second interlude in a ten minute programme but, if he did not say that people should not come to Ireland in 1972, he would not have been reported as saying it. I want the Minister for Transport and Power now to dissociate himself completely from what Mr. Evans said on that television programme. I want to go a little further. He did not go on television alone and unaided. He went on television ably supported by a gentleman called Mr. Eamon Kane, or O'Kane—I will call him Kane—the marketing director for Bord Fáilte. Mr. Kane chipped in to say that, in his opinion, Mr. Evans had performed a work of national importance. He supported him. He is a paid official of Bord Fáilte. He is a paid official of Mr. Evans. This adds insult to injury. One could complain and say that the "7 Days" programme should not have been shown. But it was factual. It was factual to the extent that it showed a recording of the "24 Hours" programme. In my opinion, it was adding insult to injury to have this first-class hotelier coming on the air and really emphasising what he had said, that he thought it was his duty to warn certain British people with young families that they should not come here, that they might get involved in rows or that their children might get involved in rows; he did not use the expression "skinheads" or "Teddy Boys", but that could be read into what he said. If this man thought that he had a duty in respect of his own hotel to issue this warning, then he should have done it privately through the post and not after being introduced on television as a director of Bord Fáilte.

I would have expected the Minister for Transport and Power to come into this House and to dissociate himself utterly and completely from the programme, from Mr. Evan's irresponsible pronouncements and from the statement of Mr. Kane aiding and abetting him. I was shocked when I heard the Minister for Transport and Power standing over him, saying that this was only 17 seconds out of a ten minute programme, justifying him, blaming the "24 Hours" programme and excusing Mr. Evans.

I looked around for some reason and now I will be political because I am entitled to be political. I never heard of this man, and the House has my word of honour that I never heard of this man until last Tuesday night, but I now find that he is one of the staunchest supporters of the Fianna Fáil Party in the County of Kerry. I find that the Fianna Fáil Cumann in Glenbeigh got first prize in the Fianna Fáil competition for the best cumann in the national collection. It headed the poll——

(Cavan):——because of the handsome contribution of Mr. Evans in return for his appointment to Bord Fáilte. That is why the Minister stands over him.

It is high time this sort of thing was put out of public life. It is high time we had a bit of common decency in public life in this country. I do not expect anybody to be absolutely devoid of politics, I know that everybody has politics, but I do not believe that a Minister for Transport and Power in this sovereign Parliament should stand over a man whom he has appointed for political reasons if he damages the economy of this country, as Mr. Evans has done. I do not believe that a servant of this country who is paid by the taxpayers should be paid to go in and support him.

Deputy Tom O'Donnell has letters here from abroad which he will read because I propose to give him five minutes of the time. He will prove that decent travel agents in England have been absolutely horrified by the pronouncements of Mr. Evans. I am not indulging in any witch hunt, I never heard of the man, but I am asking the Minister for Transport and Power to remove him from this board, to dissociate himself from the statement this man has made and to publicise to the world at large that we are not a community of people who are out against foreigners. That has always been the Fianna Fáil line. Get away from it, for God's sake. Every ship was at the bottom of the sea. You preached that long enough. That was before the Minister's time but they are now going into Europe. They have voted here with us to go into Europe. Go into it and tell the Europeans and tell the English people and tell the Americans and tell the world that they are welcome here and that we are glad to have their company and that we will put their money to good use.

Mr. O'Donnell

I do not wish to detain the House very long because I have already made my views known both here and on the "7 Days" programme regarding this whole question. I have given a lot of consideration to this in the last two days. I have had telephone calls and letters from people regarding the impact of Mr. Evans's statement on the "24 Hours" programme on the British tourist market in so far as Ireland is concerned. I believe Mr. Evans has made a major blunder particularly in view of the highly critical and very delicate situation that obtains at present in Britain and in view of the almost impossible task which our people selling Irish holidays in Britain have to encounter at present.

I have been to Britain on numerous occasions on tourist promotion trips. I have been, over the last two or three months, in almost daily contact with the travel trade over there, with some of Mr. Evans's Bord Fáilte staff there. I know the difficulties they have to encounter. There is no doubt that Mr. Evans's statement on this programme, which I understand has a viewing audience of several millions, served to sow the seeds of further doubt in the minds of those British families who were still contemplating coming to Ireland. We have not lost out entirely on the British market but Mr. Evans's statement must have had, and I have evidence from Britain that it had, a very bad effect. This confirmed the suspicions they had.

Does the Minister realise the reception that meets a British tour operator or our own Bord Fáilte staff or the staffs of the regional tourism companies, who have been in Britain for the past couple of months, when they go into a travel agent? If the reception is not hostile it is one of suspicion, it is one of fear and it is one of: "We do not want to hear about Ireland." This is what our people in the field in Britain have been fighting against. Here is Mr. Ernie Evans, a leading personality in the Irish tourist industry, a man who is well known to the British travel trade, going on the "24 Hours" programme and making implications— whether intentionally or otherwise is beside the point, I am concerned with the end product. He has confirmed the suspicions in the minds of the people.

I am not vindictive. I have never indulged in personalities in this House but I believe the directors of State bodies should be accountable to the people of this country through this House. I have consistently held this. I believe that Mr. Evans has made a major blunder which has been seriously embarrassing to his own Bord Fáilte staff and that, having made that blunder, he must be prepared to suffer the consequences.

Does the Minister also realise that, due to misrepresentation on the British news media over recent months regarding the position in Ireland, it is very difficult to sell Ireland over there. A hotelier said in a letter to me today:

Seeing and hearing the "Seven Days" programme last night we feel that we must confirm your view re the Bord Fáilte official who made absurd statements on English television. We have received cancellations from English people who have been here many times on holidays— one party over the past 20 years, another for the past six years. They have not directly stated their reasons but there is no doubt in my mind that Mr. Evans's remarks were certainly no help.

The Minister for Transport and Power to reply.

An official of the tourist board, he has made a major blunder. He must suffer the consequences and I feel that the Minister must, to undo the damage, call on him to resign.

I want to repeat what I said here on the debate yesterday morning on the Supplementary Estimate for Bord Fáilte which is that, as far as Ireland and Britain are concerned, the bonds that unite us are far more important than what divides us and that there has been a close communication between our peoples over many centuries and there is a basic racial association as well. The welcome the British people have always got in Ireland will be extended to them a hundred and a thousand fold in the coming year. This applies not just to Irish people in Britain but to all people there. I want to re-emphasise this point because we live here in peaceful Ireland where we have built institutions that guarantee stability and freedom, where peace obtains and where we have an attitude to life that is most conducive to enjoyment by anybody who comes to our island for his holiday and pleasure and that Ireland and our people—we can say this with justification—have a particular attitude towards hospitality and welcome that, in my view, is unique in the world. Nobody knows this more than British people because of their association with us and their knowledge of us as a people. It is our attitude and the basic hospitality of our people that is the biggest factor in our favour in regard to our tourism business, and the difficulties and the problems that have beset this island in recent months count very little against this basic regard in which Irish people are held by people at all levels of life in Britain. For that reason, I want to reiterate the welcome that is here, the total céad míle fáilte, on the part of all Irish people to visitors from Britain.

I want to say straight away in regard to the particular matter here that all of us in the House, of all political parties, and the gentlemen here representing the media, know how on television or radio or in the course of an interview one can be taken out of context. This was a ten minute interview given by Mr. Ernie Evans in his hotel in Glenbeigh to gentlemen of BBC television. There were 17 seconds excerpted out of that interview and projected on the screen and let me say here and now—and I have had him in with me for interview and discussion on it and I was quite tough about it with him—as projected, that 17 second interview did not do our tourism industry any good.

(Cavan): Hear, hear.

That is agreed. But, having said that, I want to emphasise the further fact that I am certainly not going to embark on any witch-hunt in regard to any person who works hard, gives his time and his energy to any State-sponsored organisation because he has just been, as it were, to use the phrase, caught out in a particular situation by media interviewers. Let us reduce it to its proper context. This is what happened on this occasion. Whereas people like ourselves in this House are reasonably skilled at not being caught out and reasonably skilled in regard to our dealings with the media, there are many people, let us face it, who do an excellent job in our society, at every level of our society, in the trade union world, the business world, the farming world, in tourism—any walk of life one takes—who are not skilled and do not have any particular training in dealing with this interview type of situation.

(Cavan): Then they should keep away from it.

I grant the Deputy his point in that respect. I am quite clear in my mind, having fully investigated the matter, that this was a situation where an interview was slanted, taken out of context. The remarks made, as slanted and as taken out of context, did not do any good. But I am further satisfied that the gentleman concerned is fully equipped to play a very honourable part as a director of Bord Fáilte.

I want to emphasise that he was a man appointed by the Government on the basis that he had a real contribution to make and has done so in terms of hard work and input into his position as director of Bord Fáilte. I am more than satisfied that he has stretched himself to the utmost in this respect. I deplore some of the remarks made by Deputy Fitzpatrick. What his political affiliations are, I do not know. I deplore the remarks made by Deputy Fitzpatrick in that context.

(Cavan): Come off it.

I would have better regard for what Deputy O'Donnell had to say about him and Deputy O'Donnell knows well, as I do, that this man and his hotel represent the very best in catering for the public and for visitors here. Certainly, in regard to his appointment to Bord Fáilte, the question of his political affiliation never arose as far as I was concerned. I was totally concerned with getting on the board at the time people who had complete knowledge of tourism and in that respect he has been a notable addition to the board. I certainly am not going to accord to the view expressed by Deputy Fitzpatrick that a mistaken attitude towards a television interview is sufficient in itself to knock a person and to boot him out. That is not my view of how things should be done. The more proper view is to look at the overall record and contribution by any man in any such position.

(Cavan): Will you tell him not to do it again?

I have done that.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.58 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 12th April, 1972.

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