Vol. 266 No. 9
asked the Minister for Education if he will circulate to Deputies a copy of the statement regarding proposals on new structures of management for primary and post-primary education delivered by the secretary of his Department in Athlone on 12th June, 1973.
18.
asked the Minister for Education the role of teachers in the proposed new structures for education at primary and post-primary level.
19.
asked the Minister for Education the role of the present school manager in the proposed new management structure for primary education.
20.
asked the Minister for Education if he will indicate the composition and functions of the proposed county and regional education authorities.
21.
asked the Minister for Education if he will indicate the composition and functions of management for primary schools in the proposed new structuring.
22.
asked the Minister for Education with whom he proposes to have consultations in relation to the proposals announced by the Secretary of his Department in Athlone on 12th June, 1973.
23.
asked the Minister for Education whether the proposals relating to the restructuring of post-primary school management envisage the abolition of all existing vocational education committees.
24.
asked the Minister for Education if the proposed restructuring of management provides for a situation where the parents of a school area desire the continuation of the existing system.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to answer Questions Nos. 17 to 24 together.
In a statement to the annual general meeting of the Association of Managers of Catholic Primary Schools in Athlone on 12th July, 1973, the secretary of my Department, with my approval, put forward for consideration by the managers certain suggestions with regard to the development and reorganisation of our system of educational administration. These suggestions have not as yet taken the form of specific proposals and the Deputy may be assured that before that stage is reached there will be the fullest consultation with all the interests involved.
Since the statement was unscripted copies are not available; but the newspaper reports of the following day carried the main items contained in the statement.
That is a most extraordinary statement. Is the Minister aware that the present Government made very heavy weather of consultation when in Opposition and particularly in their pre-election manifesto and would the Minister agree that the proposals were presented to the managers of Catholic primary schools in the form of a diktat with no consultation whatsoever?
The Deputy has not got a true understanding of the situation if he talks about proposals. I used the word "suggestions."
The Minister may mention suggestions here but I can tell him that they are being looked upon and regarded by everybody as very specific proposals and, in fact, the secretary of his Department went into detail in relation to the proposals.
I can assure the Deputy that when proposals are ready they will be put before all the interests involved for the fullest possible consultation and, in fact, the consultations are going on all the time as per our manifesto.
While I agree wholeheartedly with what the secretary had to say, I would ask the Minister is it to be the practice of the Department that the secretary will outline policy? I would have thought this would have been the function of the Minister.
Hear, hear.
It is up to the Minister to make policy statements and I certainly would have made the statement had I been assured of my being present in the country to do so.
If the Minister had been present would he have said the same thing?
That is a hypothetical question which I do not intend to answer.
Did I understand the Minister to say that his secretary issued some proposals or suggestions at his instruction? Did he also say that these were not on record? Surely if the Minister instructed or authorised his secretary to make these suggestions there must be a record somewhere and can we have that record?
The record of suggestions? Conversations take place in my Department pretty regularly and the Deputy can be assured that the proposals will be put before him and before others with the utmost possible speed.
May I ask the Minister whether the suggestions, as he terms them, put forward by the secretary of his Department had his approval?
The suggestions? Yes.
How could they have had his approval if the Minister does not know what they were?
The actual words used, as the secretary said in Athlone, were his own but the——
The Minister does not know what the secretary said?
The Chair takes the view that this matter has been sufficiently ventilated and is indicating the intention to pass on. Deputy Faulkner for a final supplementary.
I am staking a claim to a supplementary.
This is an exceptionally important matter. Surely the Minister is not suggesting that the secretary of the Department went without a script to this meeting and made what were and are specific proposals?
And very welcome ones at that.
The secretary of the Department went to the meeting with an unscripted set of ideas and suggestions in his head. These are not proposals, they are suggestions. They will take the form of proposals very shortly.
Is the Minister staling that suggestions in that particular speech, as reported by the newspapers, not related to the management of primary schools were also made at his request or after consultation with him?
If the Deputy is talking of suggestions about regional authorities, the reply is, "yes."
No, I am not.
I am calling Question No. 25. Question No. 24 has been adequately dealt with. If Members wish to raise the question further they must find another opportunity for it. It cannot be debated at Question Time.
On a point of order, surely if there are seven or eight questions grouped together the House should be allowed more time to debate them.
The Chair is the sole judge as to the number of questions which may be asked, and as to the nature of these questions. The Chair indicated that the matter had been dealt with adequately and passed on to the next question. I have called for a reply from the Minister to Question No. 25.
This is a tremendously important issue and should not be treated in this fashion.
The Minister is treating the House with disdain on this matter. He should be ashamed of himself.
