asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce the proposals he has to deal with the motor insurance situation; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
6.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Motor Insurance.
5.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce the action he proposes to take to deal with the serious situation that has arisen from the reluctance of insurance companies to insure provisional licence holders for motor insurance.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 and 6 together.
On 4th October, 1973, the Government Information Bureau announced on my behalf the establishment of a committee which will be known as the Motor Premiums Advisory Committee. I did this in accordance with the recommendation in the Interim Report of the Committee of Inquiry into the Insurance Industry on Motor Insurance for the establishment of a representative board which, among other things, would advise me on motor insurance premium rates. The immediate function of the Motor Premiums Advisory Committee will be to advise me on motor insurance rates on the basis of statistics collected and analysed by them, but early consideration will be given to whether the committee should ultimately be given a more formal existence and should assume the other functions recommended for it in the report of the Committee of Inquiry. I am hopeful that motor insurance rates recommended by the new committee on a scientific basis will lead to a motor premium structure which is fair to both insurers and insured alike. I understand that the first meeting of the new committee will take place during this week.
Other recommendations of the Interim Report of the Committee of Inquiry involve changes of a far-reaching nature affecting the legal basis of liability and insurance, and require detailed examination. I shall make my decision on these known in due course.
Is the Minister aware that problems and difficulties are being created for insured persons as a result of the discontinuation of motor insurances by the company I have in mind and would he take special cognisance of the situation in his own Department? I am aware that there is a committee in the Department of Local Government who deal with such matters but there is some urgency in regard to the problem.
I agree that the problem is difficult. It is difficult from the point of view of insurers, some of whom, I think, are unwilling on a profit basis to handle any new motor business or, indeed, to handle any more business at all. The problem is difficult also from the point of view of the insured in so far as there are large premium increases. The only way we can be certain of permitting premiums to be pitched at the right level is by the kind of detailed investigation that is being undertaken now. The problem is acute and is one which I will bring to the attention of the committee as being in need of urgent solution.
Has the Minister considered the idea of ensuring that those who are engaged in insurance generally in this State will be obliged to take on all insurance and that they will not be allowed refuse that which they do not like and seek only that which they consider to be most profitable?
The Deputy is aware that the Motor Premium Advisory Committee has been set up as a result of the interim report on the insurance industry as a whole. I have not yet received the remainder of that report. The question is one to which the Committee of Inquiry will address themselves but, of course, they will be inquiring into the insurance industry as a whole. I would prefer to await the remainder of their report before expressing an opinion, but I understand and agree with the sense of the Deputy's question.
Can the Minister state what guarantees or protection can be afforded to a person who is refused insurance cover by all companies? Can he say also whether the Government have given consideration to the possibility of national motor insurance, that is, an insurance industry controlled by the Government?
To answer the second question first—the Government have not done this currently but I assume that public participation in insurance will be one of the questions examined and reported on when the final report of the Committee of Inquiry comes to hand. Regarding the first part of the query, the Deputy will be aware that there is a committee in the Department of Local Government which does its utmost to place insurance for people who have difficulty in obtaining cover and who make representations either directly or to their Deputies or to my Department. We pass any such inquiries to the Department of Local Government.
There are a number of people experiencing difficulty in regard to insurance but the number who are finding it impossible to obtain cover is very small. There are people in respect of whom a refusal is justified but the problem in a form as acute as the Deputy cites is very small. However, we have been able to overcome the problems in the vast majority of cases by reference to the office operated by the Department of Local Government.
May I ask the Minister——
I have allowed a lot of latitude on this subject.
I have been on my feet three times.
The Chair is in control.
It has been the procedure here to allow more than one supplementary to a Deputy who tables a question.
Will the Deputy please resume his seat? Deputy Brennan.
I am constantly in trouble with you, Sir, and I am sorry about that.
The Deputy must allow Question Time to proceed. I have called Deputy Brennan.
I have been allowed only one supplementary to my question.
The Deputy must not argue with the Chair. He will resume his seat.
I respect your ruling but I think it is unfair.
I have brought to the attention of the House the fact that Deputy Fitzgerald is guilty of misconduct. He must now resume his seat.
I shall do so, but under protest because I am not getting a fair crack of the whip. May I raise the matter on the Adjournment?
The Deputy must not barrack the Chair in this fashion.
The Deputy does not deserve the barracking he is receiving from the Chair.
If the Deputy persists in this fashion he will have to suffer the consequences of the Rules of the House.
The Minister answered two questions together and it is only natural that we would ask a few supplementaries on a matter that is causing concern to everybody at present. I want to ask the Minister by way of supplementary question if instead of waiting for any watch-dog commission or any report he should not treat this as a matter of urgency— the taking of action in relation to the basic cause of increased insurance, that is, the inflated costs when accidents take place and the abnormal awards which are being made and which, when balanced against the premium income, give the appearance of justification for the excessive premiums being charged. Surely the Minister should take some action to see that this racket which is going on—
I cannot allow the Deputy to make a long statement.
I am asking the Minister is he not aware, as all Deputies must be aware, that in an accident case in which insurance is involved the person concerned is a very welcome customer in a garage because the awards made in court by juries are far in excess of anything that would be justified in most cases.
I appreciate the sentiment the Deputy has expressed. It is one that is widely held. I am not certain it is one that is validly held. To put it another way, it may be true in some cases but not in others. On the other hand, I appreciate that the question he has raised is a real one and I undertake that either through the mechanism of the committee just set up or possibly of the National Prices Commission, who can function fairly quickly, we will look at the matter of the range of charges for repairs in motor accident cases. It is a valuable suggestion which I would be happy to implement.
I want to apologise if it is thought that I have been barracking. It was not intended. I had been on my feet three times. I apologise if the Ceann Comhairle thinks that I was barracking him. I had been on my feet twice.
The Minister said in reply to a supplementary that there are not many people being refused. Surely he must be aware that the holders of all provisional driving licences are being totally refused. That is a large number of people. Can the Minister do anything about them?
How do they stand?
I can certainly have the matter looked at. It will be a matter of immediate and urgent concern for this new committee which will be meeting within seven days. I will inquire if there is any way in which this can be expedited even more.
Would the Minister agree that there seems to be a practice prevalent among insurance companies at the moment in the matter of increases that they are circuiting his Department and controls by introducing various excuses for increasing premiums? Does the Minister think that practice has been creeping into insurance generally?
It is possible it is so. If the Deputy has evidence he would be helping me and everybody else in the country if he sent it on to the Department. We might clear up a misunderstanding on this matter. I have been answering Questions Nos. 5 and 6 together. Question No. 7 is by Deputy Fitzgerald and deals with the same matter.
7.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce the exact terms of reference laid down for the committee set up to investigate certain aspects of motor insurance, when he expects a report from the committee; and the plans his Department have for a speedy solution to the rapidly worsening situation in the motor insurance business with its consequent adverse effect on the motorist and lorry owner.
The terms of reference of the new Motor Premiums Advisory Committee are to advise me on motor insurance premium rates on the basis of statistics collected and analysed by that committee. As the new committee have not yet had their first meeting—although I understand they will be meeting within a fortnight—it would be premature to fix a time scale for a report at this early stage. I propose to convey to the committee when they meet my anxiety that they should press ahead urgently with their task in the hope that the present difficulties in relation to motor insurance, which are causing dissatisfaction to both the companies and to the public alike, will be alleviated.
May I ask the Minister if he would urge this committee, or if he would be prepared to urge them, to take a very broad interpretation of their terms of reference, and if he would favour the introduction of a State system of motor insurance in view of the chaotic private enterprise system we have at the moment—a system similar to social insurance and to the motor taxation system? Would he have any thoughts along these lines and if so would they come within the ambit of the committee? I am asking the Minister if he thinks such a radical change as I have suggested is needed at the moment.
Might I ask the Minister in reference to the meeting of this committee whether he might consider it worthwhile to bring to their attention the manner in which penalty clauses seem to be operated at a time when there is a no claim bonus coming into being? In other words, the penalties are there but there is no enticement worth mentioning for the accident-free driver at a time when the penalty clauses are going up and up. Would the Minister make some arrangement in this regard which might be operated?
I will certainly pass on to the committee on motor premiums the observations of Deputies. In regard to the question of State participation in the insurance industry, Deputies will be aware that apart from the committee just established there is an existing committee investigating into the whole insurance industry and we have acted on the head of an interim report from that committee on motor business. I am waiting their final report in regard to the insurance industry as a whole. I think the question Deputy Desmond raised will certainly be considered in that final report. I should prefer not to go into any further detail until we see what is stated in that report.
In the further discussions the Minister is having with the committee whose interim report he is considering, would he draw their attention to the fact that the country has now developed an effective system of national occupational injuries and the broadening of our social insurance system, and that the committee should take congnisance of the major developments in health, in occupational injury schemes and in social insurance? Indeed, I think many of the private enterprise insurance companies would be only too glad to hand over to the State a rational system of motor insurance.
Deputies must appreciate that the Chair has given an inordinate amount of time to this subject. We must make some progress. There are 140 questions altogether.
I am sure the Minister will realise that this committee has been in operation for quite a long time. They have been considering this matter and it is a long time since they presented their interim report. Could he give us any idea of when the final report will be forthcoming from this committee?
I cannot give a precise date. The Deputy is aware that this is a complex and difficult area but I am hopeful I will have the report by the turn of the year or very early in the coming year.
Is the Minister aware that the whole object of seeking an interim report from this committee on motor insurance was to do something positive about motor insurance, a subject which affects so many people, as Deputy O'Connell has said? There were a number of recommendations in that interim report concerning some of the points raised by Deputy Brennan which could have been acted on. Why does the Minister now say that he cannot act on that first report, which had been sought so that something could be done about it? Why has it been left over? Can the Minister give any assurance that there is any semblance of truth in the suggestion that the insurance committee can possibly bring in a final report by the end of this year? I do not believe one word of it?
Without any reflection on the committee or on the Department of Local Government, would it not be better to have this committee under the aegis of the Department of Industry and Commerce? The work being done is more involved with industry and commerce. There should be more speedy action than there has been. Again I wish to say I do not mean to reflect on that committee.
In regard to the committee specifically on motor insurance premiums which has been set up, that is precisely the major action that was urged by the interim report on the insurance industry. The first meeting of this committee is within the week and it is the task of this committee to bring forward urgently the actions which I believe will solve this problem.