asked the Minister for Education why Members of both Houses of the Oireachtas are denied information from senior officials of his Department which can be obtained by other members of the public.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Departmental Information.
57.
Mr. R. Burke
No Member of the Oireachtas is denied information which can be obtained by members of the public. As stated by me on 28 November, 1973, in answer to a Parliamentary question, there is an instruction of long standing that telephone and written representations or requests made by members of the Oireachtas be replied to by the private secretary to the Minister or Parliamentary Secretary as appropriate. I consider that such an arrangement is suitable and that it should be adhered to.
May I ask the Minister if by this regulation he is showing a lack of confidence and trust in the permanent secretary of his Department, the permanent head of the Department?
Mr. R. Burke
I am not.
Does the Minister consider that this regulation reflects upon the integrity of Members of the House? Is he aware that on the only other occasion this matter was brought up during Question Time in this House by Deputy Oliver Flanagan, the then Parliamentary Secretary reached a compromise with him whereby the secretary of the Department or the Minister's private secretary would reply to Deputies on matters of this sort?
Mr. R. Burke
I am not aware of the latter point.
Is the Minister aware of the steps taken by Deputy Flanagan at that time? If not will he find out, because I can assure him that I will take the same steps to force the Minister into abandoning his Hitler type tactics?
With regard to the reference to Hitler, an appendage of that kind should not be made to a Minister.
It is complimentary in this case.
An ordinary individual can ring up the Minister's Department and get the simple information, but a Member of the Oireachtas is not to be trusted until the situation is vetted by the dictatorial Minister over there.
Mr. R. Burke
The opening sentence of my reply was that no Member of the Oireachtas is denied information which can be obtained by members of the public.
That is not correct. That is a lie.
It must go across the Minister's desk first. He does not trust his own civil servants.
May I say that no such regulation was made during my time in office.
I am sorry, Deputy Faulkner. This is not the time for making statements.
Could I ask the Minister——
I am sorry, Deputy Cunningham. We must have some finality in this matter.
There will be no finality until the Minister changes his attitude.
Question No. 58. The Chair is calling the next question.
Could I ask the Minister——
The Chair has called the next question. Deputy Cunningham, please obey the Chair.
There were only two supplementaries and this is an important question.
The democracy of the House is being challenged.