Vol. 272 No. 11
asked the Minister for Education the number of teachers in (a) primary schools (b) secondary, including vocational, schools and (c) third level education institutions who have applied to his Department for the recognition of teaching service overseas for the purpose of obtaining incremental credit in respect of such service.
50.
asked the Minister for Education the total additional cost to his Department in incremental salaries if full recognition of overseas service were granted to those teachers who have applied for such recognition.
51.
asked the Minister for Education when he intends to announce his decision to recognise the overseas service of teachers for the purpose of incremental salaries.
52.
asked the Minister for Education if he is prepared to extend recognition for all overseas service to trained national teachers who emigrated some years ago when they failed to obtain teaching positions in this country.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 49, 50, 51 and 52 together.
No statistical record is kept in the Department of Education of inquiries, or formal applications for incremental credit, from teachers in respect of teaching service outside Ireland. Accordingly the information requested in this respect is not available.
Information based on the number of inquiries, or formal applications for credit received from individual teachers would not furnish a basis for an estimate of cost allowing credit for teaching service abroad. The cost would be affected by various factors, such as the total number of teachers affected—as distinct from those who may already have made inquiries in the matter—the conditions for the award of the credit, the placing of the teachers concerned on the salary scales and so on.
I regret that full consideration of all aspects of this matter has taken longer than I would have wished. I am anxious that a decision should be arrived at in relation to it as soon as possible.
Would the Minister invite all teachers, who find themselves in this position, to apply for recognition of service abroad for incremental purposes so that he will have a statistic on the matter?
I would be prepared to accept intimation from teachers affected of their position. It is a free matter for them whether or not to apply to my Department. If they wish to do so, I would receive their representation.
Is the Minister aware that there is a formal grouping representing these teachers? Would he say if he has received a request from them about recognition of service?
I am aware that there is a group called RETAG which is interested in this matter. Earlier this year I dealt, and early next week I will deal, with the recognised teaching unions, the INTO, the ASTI and the TUI in regard to this matter. I have taken note of the representations of the other group.
Question No. 53.
Would the Minister say how long the inquiry, which he is conducting into the matter, will last in his estimation and how has an inquiry reached this stage without his having some idea of how many people are affected?
It is very difficult to say how long a court action will take. As the Deputy is aware, this matter has been the subject of legal activities in the courts in the case of Father Molloy against the Minister for Education. Since this matter has now been appealed to the Supreme Court and since it is then sub judice to some extent I would not be able to say when the matter could be determined.
Is it not true that the case of the priest——
This must be the Deputy's final supplementary.
Is it not true that the case of the priest concerned is quite a different one and that the case in question was based on the fact that there was discrimination against him as a man in Holy Orders vis-à-vis a lay person in the specific instance the Minister mentioned?
I accept the point made by the Deputy but he will appreciate that these matters have an effect one on the other and that in certain instances if I were to concede certain matters here I could be regarded as being in contempt of court. The Deputy will have to await the outcome of the court action before I can give him a precise date on which the matter will be determined.
Question No. 53.
A final supplementary.
I have given the Deputy a lot of latitude in the matter.
I know there are other Deputies directly concerned in this.
I am afraid we cannot have a debate on this matter here today.
I was not aware that I was putting my questions in the form of debating points.
Reference was made to other Deputies.
Would the Minister say when his inquiry will conclude? Could he say roughly when it will conclude?
It is not a question of an inquiry. It is a question of making a determination as a result of the Supreme Court decision which will be given, I suppose, in the future. I cannot say when the Supreme Court decision will be given.
I do not think that is completely relevant to all the people who were not in the particular mission territories that are concerned in the Supreme Court.
The Deputy will have to appreciate that if I were to give a determination in respect of certain categories I could be held in contempt of court. He will have to take my word for it that I am personally interested in this matter. There is no undue delay that I can avoid and when the matter is determined in the court I will take speedy action in so far as action is necessary.
Question No. 53.
The Minister stated that after an inquiry was completed he would take action. Would it not be fair of me to say that the Minister when on this side of the House had already a decision made in the case of teachers who had service overseas?
I am not aware that I ever raised this matter in the House but, perhaps, my memory does not serve me.
It was in a teaching magazine.
I am aware of the fact, as Deputy Murphy rightly points out, that in a particular magazine, following a request from a teacher overseas, I said I would take up the matter. I can assure him I have spared no efforts in trying to solve this matter. I can assure Deputy Wilson, too, that there is nothing that any ad hoc group can say to me which will accelerate the decision in this matter. I am doing what I can as speedily as I can.
