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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 18 Jul 1974

Vol. 274 No. 9

Adjournment Debate: Furniture Industry.

About a month ago I mentioned in the House that the difficulties in the furniture industry in Navan were reaching a crisis. I was told that I was doing a disservice to the furniture industry by highlighting it. At that time five people were let go. When the Minister replied two of these had been taken back, so there was a net loss of three jobs. Since then 30 people have been laid off in the town of Navan itself. There are quite a number on short time employment. When one considers that Navan is the principal town involved in the furniture industry here in Ireland and employs a large number of people one notes that any recession in the furniture trade certainly affects the prosperity of Navan.

In the past month there has been a deterioration of from three to 30 people who have been laid off from this industry. This has serious consequences in the town. One of the reasons for the slump has been that there has also been a slump in England. It is legal to import furniture. I contend that there is dumping in one form or another, legal or otherwise. The manufacturers tell me that since Christmas the rate of importation into this country has increased greatly. The Minister's reply today was that there was no significant increase in furniture imports. The firms tell me that there has been a dramatic increase in the amount of furniture coming into the country since Christmas and particularly in the last few months.

One manufacturer who always gave a special offer at a sale three times a year to a firm in Dublin gave a quotation which was accepted. When they went to offer again they were told that they would have to have a look at the situation. In a fortnight's time a telephone call was received to say that an English firm had got the order instead of them this year and the furniture was at a lower price than that quoted here last year. When one takes into account the rapid increase in prices over the last 12 months it is disappointing to think that an English firm can ship furniture here and still sell at a lower price than the Irish firm quoted last year. I consider that dumping. This is having a detrimental effect on the furniture manufacturers.

There was an order for 15 suites of furniture to come into the city in the last two weeks. They came in but when the shopkeeper saw them he realised it was the wrong order. He rang the firm and was told that they did not want the furniture returned but that they could have 33? per cent reduction on the 15 suites. That may have been by design. They may have wanted to get them out. It may have been a pure accident but when a firm are prepared to give a reduction of 33? per cent I maintain that is dumping.

The furniture that is coming in from England is of a kind which is the bread and butter of the Navan manufacturers. When they cannot sell their products they must be very worried. Since I mentioned the subject here numerous deputations have approached the Minister for Finance, who has passed on their representations to the Minister for Industry and Commerce. I have copies of two letters which went to the Minister for Finance in order to try to get some concession for the manufacturers so that they could keep up production.

Another factor which is affecting them is probably the concern of the Minister for Industry and Commerce. It is that furniture carries VAT at 19 per cent. But in the case of new houses where the builder provides built-in furniture like cupboards, wardrobes and so on, VAT on that amounts to only 3.7 per cent. The rate is 7.5 per cent but, because it is 45 per cent of the cost only, it is brought down to 3.7 per cent. This is one of the ways in which it has hit them, as against the 19 per cent if they were selling direct to the trade or to the individual.

Another very sore point is the fact of duty not having to be collected at the point of entrance of the product from England and other countries. When the furniture comes in they have not to pay duty on it until the product is actually sold. Furniture manufacturers here feel that in respect of furniture coming in from England duty should be charged on the invoices at the point of entry. When Navan manufacturers send out furniture they have to put the rate of VAT on the invoices and, generally, it takes about 10½ weeks before they collect the money on the goods they have dispatched. Therefore the VAT on the product has to be paid before they receive payment for the product. This has to be done out of their own financial resources and, with bank lending tightening up, this is an added strain on them. This question of the collection of duty at the point of entry has been raised on a number of occasions before. I am told that, in the case of radio and electrical products coming into this country, the duty is collected at the point of entry. We feel that because it is done in one industry it should be done in the others also and that there should be no exemption in respect of furniture coming into this country. This is affecting the livelihood of our own furniture manufacturers and, to a large extent, the town of Navan because it is based mainly there.

There is another aspect which affects the industry as well. This is in regard to furniture which has been sold to the counties nearest the Border such as Louth, Cavan, Monaghan and Leitrim, but mainly Cavan, Monaghan and Louth, where a different situation obtains, in that furniture bought in the North of Ireland carries 10 per cent duty only whereas in the Republic it carries 19.5 per cent.

I am sorry to intervene in a limited debate of this kind. I have given the Deputy a lot of latitude in respect of the matters appertaining to VAT but I am bound to say that VAT is a matter for another Department altogether; it is not the responsibility of the Minister present.

Well, it is one of the matters about which manufacturers feel sore but I shall take it elsewhere.

Then there is also the Government's policy—as outlined by the Report of the Central Bank—of rapid inflation that we have been experiencing in the past year. This is affecting the furniture industry, as it does others also. The furniture industry is the one being most harshly affected because it is, in the main, a small industry, in that the firms involved in it do not employ large staffs: they are all small firms employing perhaps five, ten or 20 people. But in Navan there is the tradition of a skilled man, who has learned his trade and has done well in a firm, starting up on his own—possibly in his own back garden—and developing from there. Some such people have developed such small businesses to the point of becoming extremely large firms and excellent ones, over the years. Some of those people now occupy factories in the industrial estate in Navan, having started in that way. Therefore, it is the small "bread-and-butter" firms in the town of Navan which are really hit hardest by inflation and, on top of that, they are having to grapple with unfair competition from England where there is a slump and where they find it convenient to use this country to dump their products.

The Minister for Industry and Commerce should do something about this. It has been pointed out to him over the past months and today again. He should try to do something to save this industry, which employs between 700 and 800 people in the town of Navan and surrounding areas. The Minister will appreciate how serious the position is in that area; where one sees sales going down continuously and firms finding it harder and harder to sell their products. They are looking to the Minister in the hope that he will be able to help them in some way to secure their livelihood.

I should like to avail myself of the few minutes left to say a few words in support of what Deputy Crinion has said on behalf of the furniture manufacturers and in the hope that anything more I shall say may get the Minister to realise how important it is to do something which might save the industry at this stage from the perilous condition in which it finds itself.

A number of factors have conspired recently to threaten the livelihood and existence of furniture manufacturing in this country. The importation of cheaper furniture is one of them. This is something about which not much can be done because the rhythm of reduction in tariffs is something which industry generally has to expect. But it is possible that what Deputy Crinion tried to prove by way of question earlier today is true: that in the present economic climate across the channel industries there may be prepared to unload stocks at lower prices than they might otherwise if the home market or export markets generally were more buoyant.

It is worthwhile noting that in these days of rapidly rising prices, furniture from abroad is being sold on the market here cheaper than it was last year. That does not at all tie in with continuously rising prices, rising wages which have caused manufacturing prices to rise, the rising cost of materials and everything connected with them, rising transport costs and so on. In these circumstances it is difficult to explain to the public that imported furniture can be bought cheaper in some cases in Ireland today than was possible two years ago. That is something not easily explained. Certainly the manufacturers here must find it difficult to get an answer to that. I think the inevitable answer one must come up with is that it is as a result of stock-piling in England, where the market has slowed down and exports generally have not been as buoyant as they were. Whether one calls this dumping or not is something worth examining.

I know that many of the things the Minister might have done in the past he is precluded from doing now under one regulation or another. But there are some things which could be done. To specify Irish made furniture for building at home would be of considerable help. Also, to give to the trade all the assistance possible by way of the various agencies, such as the IDA, CTT and the design committee, would be a great help. It is noticeable that the bread and butter lines are the ones most affected. These are the ones that would be the least responsive to anything that might be done by way of improved design because it is the utility furniture— the young couples have not the resources to buy expensive furniture— which is purchased by these people. These are the lines the Minister should have examined. While I am interested in the Navan furniture factory I should like to point out that there are other factories throughout the country. I am interested in the industry in general.

I have two reactions. The first I propose to name and then ignore it, and then to answer what has been raised. My first reaction, which I do not intend to pursue, is to say that this Adjournment Debate is on Questions Nos. 44 and 45 on today's Order Paper. Question No. 44 asks if I am aware that dumping on the Irish market is having a detrimental effect and that many people have been laid off work or are on short-time working. No effort was made to define dumping nor was there any effort made to indicate that it was occurring.

The second question asks if, in view of the difficulties being faced in the furniture industry in this country, I will grant concessions to this industry to stimulate sales. In the course of 20 minutes from an ex-Minister and a Deputy I did not hear suggestions of concessions to stimulate sales. However, the debate then became a matter of the condition of the furniture industry in Navan and elsewhere. About that I am as exercised as the Deputies. Firstly, we should put the matter into context because I did express some disapproval, when Deputy Crinion had a previous question, about the potential damage of over-estimating and over-emphasising a difficult circumstance. There is certainly a difficult circumstance in terms of export demand and in terms of home demand. Nobody denies that and there is some unemployment and a threat to employment.

Deputy Brennan spoke of the "perilous state the furniture industry has reached at the moment". In January, 1973, there were 404 people unemployed in the furniture industry. In January, 1974, there were 147 fewer unemployed in the furniture industry. In May, 1973, there were 51 more people unemployed than there were in May of this year. I am certainly concerned, and the number of unemployed is rising but in the most recent month for which we have figures there was more employment in the furniture industry this year than there was a year ago. I am not minimising the trouble but I am saying that we should not talk it up or frighten people who have some difficulties, who need courageous investment, courageous amalgamation policies and courageous new design policies. Let us not frighten them into a more shaky situation because, though it is not a good situation, neither is it one of crisis at the moment. If people are talking about the loss of 900 jobs it is a very long way away from that. Unemployment is lower now than it was a year ago.

I should now like to talk about dumping. We have a mechanism in Coimisiún Dumpála which I will invoke, instantly, and to the maximum rigour possible, if we hear of complaints about dumping. Let me spell it out to Deputies—and I do not say I told you so but I was neither a protagonist of the AIFTA or of joining the EEC—that we have free trade and we have difficulties in free trade. Dumping is selling at less than companies sell for on the home market but even if that is proved we cannot act. We can only act if we can prove injurious dumping. If anyone, and I use this occasion to speak to Deputies on all sides and, through Deputies, to the furniture industry as a whole, has any evidence of dumping, please come forward with it quickly and we will pursue it to the limit of the legal possibilities within AIFTA and our membership of the Community.

What has happened is not dumping in that sense. What has happened is that British companies which are very big and have enormous volume, and have economies of scale and of purchasing, find very sharpening competition in their own market. They are willing, in order to keep their volume up, to take much smaller margins and if they, therefore, put their products into the Irish market with much smaller margins too it is not dumping. It is knocking the hell out of our people but it is not dumping. Of course that difficulty exists and I am not pretending it is an easy one.

As an indication of the concern of the Government not alone have a delegation from the Navan Furniture Industry Association seen the Minister for Finance, and he has been in touch with me, but they have also seen my Department. They saw a senior officer of my Department on the 3rd of July. I say the date to indicate that this is not a sort of instant response to something that happened yesterday because this happened more than two weeks ago. In a subsequent radio interview which one of their spokesmen gave he enumerated the subjects he considered were the cause of some of the current difficulties. They were the bus strike, which damaged trade in the centre of Dublin; recession in the building trade; materials shortage; materials prices and the operation of VAT. He did not mention dumping at all and the people who came in acknowledged in the Department that in the technical sense under which I could act that they did not know of dumping. If it does happen we will certainly act.

What might we do constructively? Firstly, Deputies will be aware that the perilous nature of an industry with very many small producers—and people who know the Navan industry will know how fragmented it is—has been recognised for a long time. It is not today or yesterday that we had the recommendations contained in the COIP report. The core of the recommendations of the COIP people, because they recognised even before the present economic difficulties worldwide, before the price of oil went up, before the shortage of raw materials and the down-turn in the economy of many countries, was that the thing was fragmented.

That report stated that unless there was a dramatic change in the present situation, either by way of increases in all round efficiency or by the establishment of some new projects, there would be a fall in employment in the existing labour force. We have a lot of little fragmented firms. I praised an initiative I saw at the Furniture Fair where, without losing their identity, companies were coming together to get in design teams into market. In the end they can have the resources of the IDA, Fóir Teoranta and of our own Department, to solve the immediate difficulties. I do not need to pledge that because the industry knows it has that. In the end it is only by design, for which I have done what I can and will continue to do in regard to the Kilkenny Design Workshop and the other design facilities, by the activities of CTT in regard to design and in promoting exports, that the industry will succeed. Of course, all those agencies are at the service of the industry and I beg them to use them.

We will instantly act about dumping if we can find it and we will use the rescue services in particular instances where they exist. However the core of the matter is that they must get volume in purchasing and strength in marketing. We are not saying, "You must market", but we are saying: "Please notice the example of instances where groups have formed either co-ops or loose alliances to get volume in purchasing, to get volume in marketing to be able to afford to pay the best designers even if it means paying a royalty on design and getting the volume up". It is in that way that salvation lies because we cannot do special things to protect our home market in Community circumstances beyond the proving of dumping.

We are looking, but I do not hold out a great deal of hope, at the matter of the temporary quota import restrictions. But already there has been the two year extension of the transitional period under the AIFTA. That is being examined but I do not hold out great hope. If there was specially subsidised money the queue would be around the block and the farmers, as Deputy Crinion knows, would be the first in it if we gave that to one sector. For that reason I do not think that is a practical answer.

I have passed this back to the industry. All the services of design, of financial aid, of management advice which are available through a number of agencies, and all the export aids and the immediate short term rescue service that we possess, are at the disposal of the industry. They know it and we are monitoring it continuously. They are talking to my colleague, the Minister for Finance, about the VAT matter, and that is not a matter for me. We can help them through short-term difficulties but no one must pretend to them that they can have a long-term survival in an on-going free trade situation unless they get design, volume, and purchasing and marketing strength through functioning in bigger groups either by amalgamation or by co-operative groupings. There are some pioneer examples which I recommend to them.

In the immediate difficulty we continue to monitor the position very carefully. We do not see a crisis although we do see some deterioration in the position. The services, whether it be design, financial, marketing, or management expertise, at the disposal of my Department, and other Departments, are available. We ask the furniture industry to make use of them to get through a difficult period when the British and the home market are much less satisfactory and much less profitable than they were in the recent past.

May I ask a question?

In order to get this information about dumping which he says is difficult to get, would the Minister consider having assessors to value furniture at the point of importation even on a spot check basis? That is one possibility. Would he speak to—I think he mentioned this in his reply—his colleague the Minister for Finance with a view to easing the method or system of paying the various taxes, VAT and PAYE, over a period to ease the pressures on the industry?

Both those things are practical. While I do not guarantee the outcome of either of my colleague's deliberations or whether it will be possible, I will make the representations and I will have the value of the spot check examined.

Thank you.

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