asked the Minister for Local Government if he has any plans or proposals for the continuing development of the roads to the west from Dublin to (a) Mullingar (b) Athlone (c) Longford (d) Boyle and (e) Sligo.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Road Development.
80.
Improvement works on these roads will be continued in the programmes for 1975 of the local authorities responsible for them. As they are national primary routes, Road Fund grants will be available to meet the cost of approved schemes for their maintenance and improvement.
Can the Minister say what priority is being given to those national primary roads that come within responsibility of his Department?
They will get the priority that will be allocated to them by the county councils.
What priority will they be given by the Department?
If they are national primary routes they have been identified already. The Deputy is probably aware that I changed the system this year whereby instead of giving 50 per cent for maintenance of national secondary routes, the figure is 100 per cent. Therefore, the position is much better than it was and much more money is being made available for this work.
The amount of work being done is less.
The Deputy must have been looking at the roads through the wrong end of a telescope.
Can the Minister state if the amount of money to be provided next year will be greater than that allocated this year?
I suggest that the Deputy direct his question to the Minister for Finance who might be able to give him that information in advance of the budget.
Question No. 81.
Anyone who examines the Book of Estimates will see that the additional moneys being provided for the Road Fund are being cut substantially.
The Deputy may not make a statement.
If there are additional moneys, how could there be a substantial cut?
The figure in the Book of Estimates is less for next year than it is for the nine-month period of this year.
The Deputy should have another look at the Book of Estimates. The figure is being increased substantially. Let the Deputy not endeavour to put forward something which is not correct.
If the Minister examines the Book of Estimates he will see that I am correct.
The Deputy is indulging in argument. This is not in order.
81.
asked the Minister for Local Government whether a suggested route for a motorway carrying traffic from the west into Dublin city has been planned; and, if so, if he will circulate a map of the suggested route.
82.
asked the Minister for Local Government whether a decision has yet been made to construct a motorway leading from Dublin to Kilcock.
83.
asked the Minister for Local Government whether a decision has yet been made to construct a motorway to facilitate traffic between the west of Ireland and Dublin city.
84.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he will give details of any preliminary investigations that have already been undertaken regarding the proposal to construct new approach roads leading from the west of Ireland into Dublin city.
85.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he will give details of any moneys expended to date on the preliminary planning of new approach roads from the west of Ireland to Dublin city.
86.
asked the Minister for Local Government whether it is Government policy to construct modern approach roads to facilitate traffic between the west of Ireland and Dublin city.
87.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he will give details of all works undertaken by any local authority in connection with the designing, and so on, of new approach roads to Dublin city from the west.
88.
asked the Minister for Local Government if it is Government policy to undertake the construction of motorways; and, if so, if he will give details of planning to date and the proposed routes of such motorways.
89.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he will give an estimate of the cost of constructing one mile of motorway.
90.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he considers the capacity of the road leading from Dublin city to Kinnegad to be adequate for present-day usage.
91.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he considers the road leading from Dublin city to Kinnegad to be adequate for present and future needs.
92.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he intends making any provision in next year's estimates or Road Fund allocations for works connected with the planning of motorways or new traffic routes from the west into Dublin city.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 81 to 92 together.
On road planning generally, it is the Government's policy to effect the optimum improvement of the road system, taking account of all the relevant factors, including present and potential traffic demands, the range of resources likely to be available and so on.
As to the standard of improvement of a particular route, this again will depend on all the relevant factors. As I indicated to the Deputy on 7th February, 1974, construction to motorway standard will be considered if projected traffic flows indicate that this type of road would be the most efficient and economical. The Local Government (Roads and Motorways) Act, 1974, provides local authorities with the necessary powers to construct and operate such roads.
As regards the construction of particular motorways, I would refer the Deputy to the terms of the 1974 Act. No scheme for a motorway under the Act has been submitted to me and in view of my functions under the Act, it would be inappropriate for me to comment in advance on any possible scheme.
It is not possible because of the number and variety of influencing factors, to give a standard figure for the estimated cost of constructing a mile of motorway. Location, ground conditions, cost of land and property, spacing of interchanges, number and type of underpasses or overpasses are some of the factors which would effect considerably the cost of a motorway. The cost in an urban area could be more than the cost in a rural area.
As to preliminary investigations into a proposed new road, including a motorway, this is a matter for the local authority or local authorities concerned. I have not got details of the expenditure incurred on specific investigations into such proposals, although I am aware that the local authorities concerned with the approach roads into Dublin have the subject under active consideration. Road Fund grant allocations for 1975 have not yet been determined, but in their determination due account will be taken, inter alia, of the need for advance planning of specific routes.
As regards the condition of the Dublin-Kinnegad route, no doubt sections of it are inadequate for present, and for future, traffic, as indeed, as the Deputy will be well aware, are sections of other national routes. The overall requirements of the road system will be taken into account duly in the allocation of Road Fund grants.
That is the most depressing statement I have heard from the Minister for Local Government for quite some time because it is very clear——
A question, Deputy.
I would like to ask the Minister if I am correct in assuming that he does not intend going ahead with the planning and construction of a proper approach road from the west into the city, all the jumble of words which he has read out here indicate that to me very clearly from my own experience of reading between the lines? Could I ask the Minister who does he expect will submit him a scheme for a motorway on this road, bearing in mind that the Department of Local Government are now paying 100 per cent of the grants for primary roads and that the proposed motorway or major highway would traverse several counties? Whom is he expecting to take the initiative in this if it is not the Minister and the Government?
If Deputy Molloy had not been Minister for Local Government for a period I could forgive him his supplementary question, but I am quite sure that having been there and knowing what the rules are, he must know, or he should know, that the initiative must come from the local authority or local authorities. I have no power to tell local authorities that they must construct a motorway. When they come to me I shall deal with them fairly expeditiously, I can assure Deputy Molloy. Deputy Molloy is aware from another instance very recently that it is not a question of simply telling a local authority: "All right, you go ahead and do this, because this is the way I want it." The Department of Local Government cannot initiate either a motorway or a bridge. They must wait for the local authority to introduce it first.
Could I ask the Minister if he is aware that the initiative for the preliminary work that was undertaken in determining a route for such a road came from the then Minister, and that the local authorities in question would not act unless they had an assurance that the move was going to be supported by Government funds, in this case 100 per cent of the cost; and that a decision from the Minister, with the backing of the Government, is required to give the guarantee to local authorities that they can involve themselves in detailed planning and in heavy expenditure involved in such a project? No initiative has been taken by the Minister.
The Deputy should ask a question.
The fact that the Minister has taken no initiative dampens down the initiative which I had taken to try to get some work under way—so that a decent road would be provided for those travelling across from the west to Dublin. It is a shame——
The Deputy will resume his seat.
I want to impress upon the Minister——
Deputy Molloy, the Chair is on his feet. I shall ask the Deputy to leave the House if he does not obey the Chair.
We shall have to keep pressing this issue until such time as positive steps are taken——
This is scandalous behaviour on the part of the Deputy.
The Minister, is not performing his duties——
I must ask the Deputy to desist from this behaviour. If there is any recurrence I shall invoke the rules. Next question.
I am putting the facts on the record.
May I refer to the part of the Deputy's remarks which were relevant?
The atmosphere has been disorderly.
Yes, but I do not like Deputy Molloy to get away with the hysterical statements he has made on more than one occasion——
Factual.
——and trying to put them forward as facts. The facts are that Deputy Molloy did not ask for any initiative to be commenced by the local authority.
More lies.
The facts are that Deputy Molloy on another occasion wrote to a local authority on the day he left office and told them to go ahead with a bridge which had not even been prepared or for which there was no money available, and he had the nerve to come along with a deputation to try to force me into the position of doing the same. There were absolutely no efforts made by the Department of Local Government because they had no power to make these local authorities prepare a motorway. It is up to the local authorities—and I have told them so—to make their own proposals, and they do not need any guarantees from this Government, because this Government have made it quite clear that they will pay 100 per cent of the cost when the local authority produce an acceptable scheme. That sort of bluff does not carry any weight.
I have it on the best authority that the Minister has put an end to the planning of a motorway from the west into this city.
It would be unparliamentary for me to say that is a lie, so I shall say it is an untruth.
Could I ask the Minister if he is saying now for the record that no initiative was taken by his predecessor, in consultation with the local authority, in the early preparation of a motorway?
I am saying—and Deputy Colley is long enough listening to me to understand that when I say something I am careful about words— that no initiative was taken by Deputy Molloy or his Department while he was Minister which started preparations for a motorway to the west from this city.
Parliamentary planning.
If I may repeat what the Minister has said, it would be unparliamentary to describe what the Minister said as a lie, so I shall not so describe it, but it is not true. I know that personally because I was involved.
I do know that Deputy Colley did, on numerous occasions, advise Deputy Molloy on how to cut down the finance which he was spending, but this is one case in which Deputy Colley did not take part. Deputy Molloy did not do anything, so Deputy Molloy could not comment on it.
That statement is not correct.
(Interruptions.)
Question No. 93.
There are 12 questions together.
There is considerable disorder.
I shall try to ask a question in as orderly a fashion as I can. Could the Minister state clearly here and now what works are being undertaken, preliminary or otherwise, which would lead to the establishment of a route or a line for a future motorway leading out of the city in a westerly direction to replace the poor standard roads, which the Minister has admitted are inadequate at present?
Any preliminary work which is being done is and must be done by the local authorities concerned, and I cannot detail for Deputy Molloy what those may be. The substandard route to the west has been there for a very long time, and only when the Roads and Motorways Bill was passed through here was there any hope of doing anything to change that position. Therefore, Deputy Molloy, with the best will in the world, could do nothing about it because he had not the legislation.
The Minister found that on his desk. Stop bluffing.
I have the legislation now.
It was there.
It was not.
It was there.
No. Deputy Molloy paid an odd visit to the Custom House, but he did not do anything when he was there.
The Minister is the biggest liar I have ever come across.
The word "liar" should be withdrawn. I do not think the Deputy wishes to impute to the Minister that he is a liar.
He is a liar.
That is unparliamentary.
If it is unparliamentary——
It must be withdrawn.
If parliamentary procedure requires me to withdraw it I shall withdraw it, because I do not intend to lose my right to argue this case here.
This is a disgraceful attack the Minister is making on his predecessor.
Question No. 93.
One final question. Can the Minister inform me whether there are any maps in the Department of Local Government Road Section or elsewhere which lay down suggested routes for a major new road leading from the west into Dublin?
There are numerous maps which over the years have been produced by various people, but there are no definite proposals or no agreed——
Because the Minister will not make the decision.
Because there are no proposals before me nor have any proposals been put before me since I became Minister. Deputy Molloy will not get away with the suggestion that he had the motorway ready to start if somebody would just press the button.
I did not say that. There is ten years work in it.
Next question.
One final question.
The Deputy said that on the last occasion.
Will the Minister ask the local authorities to prepare and submit a scheme to him?
The local authorities involved have been working on this scheme for some time but it has not been submitted to me.
Now we get the truth. I initiated it.
Deputy Molloy did not initiate it because he had not the authority to do so.
(Interruptions.)
Question No. 93.