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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 18 Dec 1974

Vol. 276 No. 13

Adjournment Debate: Thalidomide Victims.

I am raising on the Adjournment the question of the Government's proposals to compensate the victims in Ireland of the drug, thalidomide. Although the question is phrased to relate to the Government's proposals, it is not easy to talk about those proposals because so far as we can ascertain, the Government have not to date disclosed their proposals to the association which was founded to look after the interests of these unfortunate children and their parents, that is, the Association for Justice for Irish Thalidomide Children.

I understand that the association have encountered some difficulty in meeting the Minister to discuss this very important question but that while a meeting has not taken place with the Minister for about 18 months, late last evening it was conveyed by an offical of the Department to a member of the association that the Minister would be prepared to meet them on January 9th next. The association have been led to believe that during this month or last month the proposal of the Government to compensate the children concerned would be made known. The association are now fearful that these proposals may not be made known before January 9th. Of course, they have no guarantee that the proposals will be made known then.

I ask the Minister to use the opportunity given him in replying to this short debate to disclose what figure the Government are prepared to pay to these children and to their parents by way of compensation. Settlements have been made to thalidomide victims and their parents in many other countries but there has been no settlement so far as the Irish victims are concerned. So that the Minister would have an idea of the sort of money that the Irish parents must necessarily have in mind, I might refer to the settlements which were made in other countries. In the UK and in the Commonwealth countries the settlement was £50,000 per child and, in addition, the parents of each child received a sum of £5,000. In the US the settlements have been for sums of £100,000 and more. In Canada the figure has been £100,000 in respect of each victim while in Sweden and Denmark the settlements have varied between £35,000 and £50,000 with a built-in inflation clause. In Japan the settlements have ranged between £47,000 and £57,000 depending on the degree of severity of the damage caused to the children by the drug. In Australia the average settlement has been for £51,000 with an additional £5,000 for parents.

The position so far as the Irish victims are concerned is that the German company who manufactured this very dangerous drug endeavoured to lump them in, as it were, under a foundation that was established in Germany, partly by the firm in question and partly by the German Government and which had statutory authority in Germany from the Federal Parliament. By including the Irish victims within the auspices of the German foundation they would become entitled to what was being paid in Germany by the foundation in question but the amounts that have been paid in Germany and which have in some cases been paid on account to some of the children here are miserably small by comparison with the settlements that have been made in Britain and in the various other countries I have referred to.

Under the German scheme the maximum award for the most severe victims of thalidomide was a capital sum of £3,000 and a monthly pension of £72. The most severe damage caused to any individual by this drug was to have been born without any limbs. There is at least one such case in Ireland and, presumably, many more in Germany. The maximum compensation that was awarded to any such child in Germany was merely £3,000 and a pension of £72 a month. The less severe cases have been offered capital sums of only a few hundred pounds. When one talks of the damage being less severe in relation to thalidomide, it may be correct, speaking comparatively, to say it is less severe than some of the very severe ones such as limbless children but even the least severe in Ireland are rather horribly crippled and deformed. If a similar sort of injury were caused to a child or to anyone as a result of a motor accident here, the damages would merit an award of tens of thousands of pounds.

The parents of these children, and the children who are all now aged between 12 and 14 and are conscious of the numerous problems attaching to their condition, have waited this tremendously long period for some sort of compensation. The parents know that in other countries children who were damaged by the drug, with the exception of the German children, have got these large awards that I have mentioned. In fairness to the German Government, I would point out that while the amounts awarded there seem very small there are available freely to those children tremendous social and medical services, whereas here the only entitlement of the children is to a medical card and that some are in receipt of the £25 per month domiciliary allowance. Some of the Irish children have received the German award, which is very niggardly, but some even at this very late stage have not been paid that yet. But what they have got, or will get, from the German foundation is only a small fraction of the compensation to which they are entitled and which they and the country as a whole look to the Government to provide as has been done in the many other countries to which I have referred.

The Minister may announce the amounts that will be offered to the children at the meeting which was fixed yesterday for 9th January but if the amounts have been decided on there is no reason why the Minister should not take the opportunity of this short debate to tell the parents of the children concerned what his proposals are. The parents are distressed and upset at the excessively long delay which seems longer here than in any other country. We must acknowledge their situation: all of them have now lived with these children for 12 to 14 years. That, in itself, causes great problems to all of them but their natural distress and anxiety is increased by the prolonged delay in the announcement of the figures the Irish Government propose.

Deputy Andrews would like to use the remaining time available to us to speak on this matter and I do not propose to continue except to say that presumably the Minister has now decided on the figures he will offer and I would ask him in all charity to end the very excessive waiting period for these children and their parents and tell them now rather than in three or four weeks' time what they will get.

I support the proposal of Deputy O'Malley and I am sure if the debate were open to other Deputies they would also share the concern expressed by Deputy O'Malley.

Thalidomide was a man-made calamity. It caused an illness, or a lack or want induced by this drug and it is not a natural calamity. As Deputy O'Malley said, Britain, Japan and Germany seemed to have compensated those afflicted by this desperate drug reasonably adequately, having regard to the medical services available in those countries, particularly Germany.

I would refer the Minister to Article 40.3.2º of the Constitution which states:

The State shall, in particular, by its laws protect as best it may from unjust attack and, in the case of injustice done, vindicate the life, person, good name, and property rights of every citizen.

The Constitution is quite clear on the Government's duty in regard to Irish citizens, their children and putative citizens and their children. We believe that the Government should contact the German Government as a matter of urgency and suggest that whatever compensation the Irish Government put up the German Government should put up a similar, if not greater sum. This drug came from a German source. I am in no way critical of the German Government in this respect; any criticism must be levelled at the firm concerned, but I believe that in view of the fund of goodwill existing between Ireland and Germany and their relationship existing over years, an approach by the Minister on behalf of the Government would, I think, meet a good reception.

However, having said that, I think we have an obligation to offer an immediate solution to the problem which the Minister and the Government must face. The Criminal Injuries Tribunal evolved from the Dublin bombings in 1972 and criminal injuries generally are dealt with by that tribunal which, in fairness, the present Government set up and which arose out of groundwork done by the previous Government—that is not the point; we are not engaged in political point scoring.

It is a tribunal which is working well. Any of us who has been in touch with it on behalf of constituents or people who have been criminally injured has met with the greatest cooperation from the very helpful registrar, Mr. O'Driscoll. It is only fair to record the appreciation of the House of the amount of work he is putting into the tribunal. Having seen such a tribunal work well, is there any reason why the Minister for Health should not set up a similar tribunal to deal with the thalidomide cases immediately? It could be staffed and dealt with on the same basis as the Criminal Injuries Tribunal.

The Minister might say this would be a bad precedent but in this case we are dealing with injuries due to a man-made drug, not natural injuries. We are not dealing with congenital defects. The man-evolved injuries include deafness, blindness, affect one leg or two legs, involve loss of one leg or of two legs, of one arm or two arms, as the case may be.

The children themselves, as Deputy O'Malley said, are aged between 12 and 14 and they can now read this Dáil debate which will be published. They can read reports generally dealing with their cases over a number of years and one must consider the tremendous psychological trauma these children suffer in addition to the great physical burden they have to carry. We ask the Minister, in God's name, to bring this sorry saga to a conclusion by dealing with it, as Deputy O'Malley says, today and not tomorrow. I conclude by saying that one of the children said: "It was not God who made us this way; it was the tablets". If the Minister continues to act with his Government's and his own characteristic lack of will, we believe the parents of the children may hear the cry: "The tablets made us this way and the Minister left us this way."

I believe the Minister is a man of compassion and sympathy and a very decent man. That is generally held on all sides of the House. We believe he is concerned to give the parents who have been frustrated over the years by the lack of initiative——

I intervene to advise the Deputy that his time is up.

I would make a final plea to the Minister to exercise compassion and deal with this problem immediately.

I think I have shown compassion so far as the unfortunate children are concerned. It might be useful at the outset if I reminded the House of the development of the Government's policy towards thalidomide children since we took office 20 months ago. I can understand the concern of the two Deputies, which I share, but in the limited time available to me I should like to give a short history of the problem.

When I took office in March, 1973, I discovered that the previous Government did not intend to augment any compensation which Irish thalidomide children might derive from German sources.

I dispute that statement.

The Deputy can dispute some other time. I am telling him the facts.

The Minister for Health must be allowed to speak without interruption.

The previous Government had no hard information as to the actual number of Irish children who had suffered from the effects of the thalidomide drug. In addition, they had made no arrangements to assess the special needs of those children whom they knew to have suffered deformities due to thalidomide.

That is some consolation to the people who are suffering.

We are interested in the children, not in politics.

The Deputies raised a question and they must listen to the reply.

They do not like to hear the truth.

We were specifically asked to put down this question.

Is the Minister going to be allowed to use the time available to him, or is he not?

It is a pity he does not exercise his compassion.

It is a pity for the Deputy that I have to tell the truth. I have stated the position when I took office in March, 1973.

The people do not want to hear politics any more. They want action.

The Deputy does not want to hear me. His Government were not going to do anything. At that time I did not know the extent of the problem and there were no proposals to meet the children's special needs as thalidomide children——

The Minister is a great reader.

I dealt with this matter in my Estimates speech and by way of question and answer.

Who wrote the Minister's speech?

It is a pity the Deputy would not get someone to write some of the utterances he makes in this House.

Deputy Andrews must restrain himself and allow the Minister to reply.

Shortly after taking up office in May, 1973, I announced that the Government would augment the awards to the children from the German fund. To give effect to that decision, first I had to establish the number of Irish children affected, secondly, the extent of their disabilities and, thirdly, how much precisely they would get from the German fund. Without all this information it would not be possible for the Government to decide on the extent of the financial and other assistance which would be given to the children.

In October, 1973, I set up, after consultation with the Parents' Association, the Irish Thalidomide Medical Board. Its task was to establish the number of Irish thalidomide victims, to assess the degree of permanent incapacity in each case and to indicate the treatment and care which they required. I would point out at this stage that the delay between May and October, 1973, in setting up the board was due primarily to the need to consult with the advisers to the Parents' Association who were not readily available during this time due to holiday and other commitments.

On 29th April, 1974, the board reported their findings to me. They stated there were 34 Irish thalidomide children and indicated the range of special care and services which these children required.

By May of this year, therefore, I was informed for the first time of the actual number of children involved. One of the children will receive compensation from the British Distillers' Fund and, therefore, will not be considered for further financial aid from Irish Government sources.

Before the Government could decide on the amounts by which they would augment the financial awards to each child from the German fund, it was also necessary to know the amounts of the German awards in each case. So far we have information on the awards to 27 of the 33 children only. I do not wish to labour this point but the awards to the last of the 27 children only came to hand in October last, which still leaves six cases outstanding.

It was necessary for us to see the pattern of the German awards because they indicate on a scientific basis the relative degree of incapacity of each child and because I had decided that the fairest way to implement the Government's decision was to make the financial assistance to each child proportionate to the German award. Although I do not yet have details of the awards to six of the 33 children, we had enough information on which the Government could make a firm decision.

Accordingly, the Government made a decision on this question at their meeting last Friday. However, there are still some problems of detail regarding this decision which need to be tidied up. These are minor details and they will be worked out in the immediate future.

I do not intend to announce the terms of the Government's decision until these details are resolved and until I meet representatives of the Parents' Association. Yesterday, as Deputy O'Malley pointed out, an officer of my Department contacted the chairman of the association to invite them to meet me on 9th January next. I will inform the association of the terms of the Government decision at that meeting and will simultaneously announce the decision publicly. I think it is appropriate that the parents are informed of the Government's decision before any public announcement is made.

I regret it was not possible for the Government to move faster on this issue. Deputies must be aware that the issue is a complex one and has so proved both here and abroad. I am concerned to help these children to the greatest extent possible and this has been my concern since I took office.

Before concluding, I think I can indicate to the House before my meeting with the Parents' Association that the Government's decision provides not only for additional assistance but also for the provision of the full range of services recommended by the Irish Thalidomide Medical Board. I will inform the Parents' Association of the special arrangements I am making to provide these special services at the meeting on 9th January.

Did the Minister say there were 34 children?

There are 33 as one child is receiving compensation from the British Distillers' Fund.

Is it intended taking in the 33 children under this proposed scheme?

Will each child be given the same facilities with no distinctions made? Will the scheme cover all of them equally?

Does the Deputy mean will the same compensation be given to each child?

Is he referring to the various appliances and equipment?

The rehabilitation board, in conjunction with the health boards, will work out schemes to provide such a system.

Will there be degrees of compensation?

If only the minor details have to be worked out, will the Minister not now indicate for the benefit of the parents the basic principle of the compensation?

I will give the parents the exact details on 9th January.

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