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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 12 Mar 1975

Vol. 279 No. 3

Adjournment Debate: Speed Limits.

I raise the matter of speed limits for the purpose of getting some definite information on Government policy in relation to it. This matter has been kicked around for some time as a political device. We had the imposition of a speed limit to justify the increase in the tax on petrol, and its removal and its imposition in a matter of months. I should like to know where we stand in regard to speed limits on public highways and in built-up areas, especially housing estates, which is of greatest concern to me.

Government speakers on this subject from time to time have added confusion to uncertainty. Now we do not know where we are. The manner in which speed limits have been introduced, changed and reintroduced is a matter of gravest concern. We read in The Garda Review that it is difficult to enforce the 50 miles per hour limit. If this is the case, the law is being reduced to ridicule. If the Government considered it necessary to impose a 50 miles per hour limit, they should have given the Garda the means to enforce it.

As he files through the country in his State car, I am sure the Minister has observed how this regulation is honoured in the breach more than in its observance. He will have noticed the number of cars that pass his at high speeds, much faster than the Minister's car is travelling, and he is not bound by speed limits. He will, therefore, know that efforts to enforce this limit are ineffective because the Garda have not been given the devices with which to enforce the law in this respect.

As I said, the 50 miles per hour limit was a political device to justify the increased tax on petrol. There was the suggestion that travelling at lower speeds would conserve fuel. Added to that, they mentioned the safety factor. Now we demand to know the truth about this. We want to know what exactly is Government policy. The Minister knows that modern cars travelling at speeds less than 50 miles per hour do so only because the cars are not giving of their best and not because they wish to observe this limit, which the Garda are unable to enforce anyway. In this respect we should like to know the Minister's opinion of the editorial in The Garda Review, to which I referred, and what action he proposes to take as a result.

Also as I said earlier, my main concern is about the big housing estates and the other built-up areas. It is of vital importance that the Garda be given the mechanism to enforce the speed limit in such areas. The position in them at the moment is alarming. In my constituency the number of reported and unreported accidents in recent months speak for themselves. Most of them have occurred because of speeding. Therefore, there is a crying need for consultation between the Minister for Local Government, the Garda and the other bodies concerned.

There are two points I should like to make. First of all, I should like to know if the Government have a positive policy in relation to speed limits, if they intend changing the present speed limit and, if so, their justification for so doing.

I know there are other speakers who want to make some points but those are the points on which I would ask the Minister to give us the benefit of his views and indicate the view of the Government in relation to any change in this matter. To my mind and that of most other people the first change came as a result of a political device to try to justify the increase in the price of petrol during the fuel crisis. From statements made by some Government speakers it would appear that the imposition of the speed limit was with a view to conserving fuel rather than the safety factor. Perhaps the Minister would clarify these matters and give us some indication of what are the Government's positive views and policies in relation to speed limits as a whole.

I knew I would be expected to say something on this matter. I spoke on the speed limit in the House a couple of months ago and I was interviewed on radio in relation to the question. Since then I received many letters complimenting me on the fact that I had raised this important matter—the fact that we have a speed limit which cannot be and is not being kept. Let us be honest with ourselves. We may say we are keeping it but we are not. I am not and I have been fined already, but I will accept a fine any time I am caught because, if one breaks the law, one is supposed to pay for so doing. But I think it is ridiculous to have such a law obtaining on our major highways at present. I drive only an Escort car but in any car being driven on our highways it will be diffifult for the driver to keep under 60 miles per hour. In fact, that is what has been happening.

As I pointed out before, if one is travelling to Dublin and has allocated oneself a certain amount of time for the journey, if one keeps to the speed limit on the straight road —and anybody who travels between Dublin and Galway will know the road between Moate, Kilbeggan right up to Kilcock—one will find oneself doing 55 miles per hour coming into Dublin, when one is in danger of crashing.

The reason we were given for the imposition of this speed limit was the conservation of petrol. On the evening the speed limit was first introduced I happened to be travelling home from Dublin and I noticed that there was an attempt made to keep to it. Anybody travelling regularly from Dublin to Galway will know that on the Kilcock road there builds up a line of cars until one gets onto the road outside of Kilcock, about five miles out, when the faster cars pull out, the lorries remain back and one can travel at one's ease. But if everybody sticks to the 50 mile limit what happens is that all the way into Kinnegad one is perpetually changing gears. I said before and repeat again that I certainly do not think it saves petrol. This argument of having an unrealistic speed limit with a view to saving petrol is just not on.

I do not want to be making too much noise about this but, like Deputy Dowling, I would make an appeal to the Minister in this respect. Certainly since I spoke on the radio nobody has said to me I was wrong, not one person said so because everybody knows, if they are honest enough to admit it, they are not keeping the law.

I mentioned State cars here on the last occasion I spoke. I do understand that police cars are privileged but, mind you, it is very bad example when these Mercedes fly past one. Sometimes when I am travelling at 60 miles an hour they pass me out as if I were on a bicycle. What kind of law is that? On any road I travel I find other motorists flashing their lights at me to say that the Garda cars are ahead. It would be much better were the Minister to introduce a realistic speed limit of 60 miles per hour with, say, a limit of 40 miles per hour on any crooked or winding roads. There is a dangerous bit of road in County Galway between Ballinasloe and Loughrea where we have such a speed limit imposed. But on the major highways I repeat that I think the present 50 mile limit is ridiculous. For example, on the Nass carriageway—I often go home that way—motorists do not keep to the limit. If I am travelling at 60 miles an hour there are fellows passing me out at 70 and 80 miles per hour. But the ordinary man doing, say, 52 or 53 miles per hour is likely to be caught. It is in that respect I make my appeal to the Minister. I did hear the Minister was thinking of changing the speed limit. I gather it appeared in some paper or other. I can assure him that if that is true everybody will welcome it because the present limit is one which cannot be enforced. If one wants to bring the law into disrepute, then one makes a law that cannot be enforced. I would appeal again to the Minister to change this before the summer and make it a 60 miles an hour limit, ensuring that it is enforced, when I think the Minister will have the goodwill of all people concerned. Nobody likes to see a motorist travelling as if he were competing in a race but a speed of 60 miles per hour on our major highways is by no means too fast. By all means, speed limits should be adhered to in cities or villages and anybody who does not should be checked.

I would make a final appeal to the Minister to have a law that can be enforced, that will be respected but do not have one being broken by everybody with nobody so admitting. I am not a speed hog but one just cannot keep the present limit on our major highways. I would ask the Minister to make an announcement right away that he will change the speed limit, which would be welcomed by everybody. One might think I was speaking for a certain section of the community only, but nowadays everybody has a car and uses it to go here, there and everywhere on business and pleasure.

When I first raised the matter of speed limits, I mentioned that there was a strong body of opinion within the Garda that the present speed limit could not be enforced. At that time also I mentioned a draft regulation drawn up by the Ministers of Transport of the EEC. At that time I do not think the Minister was aware of the regulation but he said he would give it consideration. He has now had time to consider it and I would ask him to have it implemented now because the 50 miles an hour limit is not a realistic one and I join other Deputies in their appeal to the Minister in this respect.

There was a time when somebody asked a question in this House and he was not satisfied with the reply he asked a supplementary. Now we have a change. Somebody goes to the trouble of researching a question and somebody else who does not put down a question at all asks a supplementary on it. It is the lazy man's way of doing things. It reminds me of the lion killing the game and the jackal who would not be able to kill the game comes along and eats some of it. It appears we have a new kind of political animal in this Dáil who comes in for the purpose of keeping me here until 11 o'clock.

Would the Minister answer the question? Let him cut out the nonsense.

Order. Deputy Dowling should not interrupt.

If the question asked last night and the one asked tonight are the type of questions that are going to be asked to keep me here until 11 o'clock, I shall enjoy it very much.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy Dowling must desist from interrupting.

I merely want the Minister to answer the question.

I am appealing to the Deputy's sense of fair play. He must realise it is wrong to interrupt on a limited motion of this kind.

But the Minister——

The Deputy must desist or leave the House.

It is a very old trick to ask a question, get 20 minutes to make the case and if the answer is too hurtful——

There was no answer.

——then to decide to interrupt so that the answer cannot be put across. I take Deputy Callanan's point : if he is driving along and thinks he can get away with going over the speed limit and he is in a hurry, he admits that, and that is all right. He has a small car, but the people with the bigger cars—the State are not the only people to drive Mercedes—travel fairly fast too. I can understand Deputy Murphy's annoyance because in the by-election he was travelling so slowly that he was not able to get around the whole area allotted to him. I can see all these points.

The question was down before the by-election.

I get around the whole area.

Deputy Callanan travelled around all right, but he did not keep the speed limit. When I was answering the question, I said the date was 13th February, Volume 278.

What was the by-election date?

I did not say the Deputy did not ask the question before the by-election. I said the fact that the 50 mile per hour limit was there prevented him from going as fast as he hoped he would be able to go, and he was not able to cover the area allotted to him. We have a rather peculiar situation here. In the USA the speed limit is 55 miles per hour and that is apparently acceptable. In Britain there are three limits : 70 miles per hour on the motorway, 60 miles per hour on a dual-carriageway, and 50 miles per hour on other roads. When the 1966 Road Traffic Act was being enacted, the Fianna Fáil Government were in power, and not alone did they want changes made between the winter and the summer but they wrote into the Act regulations whereby the Minister had authority to have a different speed limit for day and night. I felt that having a lower speed limit in the winter than in the summer was not a bad idea at all, and I believe it worked out fairly well. It coincided with a call for a reduction in the amount of fuel being used. I am not personally convinced that it has reduced fuel consumption, and for that reason I am prepared to go a certain distance particularly with Deputy Callanan who made that point. However, Deputy Dowling seems to think that when a change was made in the general speed limit, it also affected the ones that were left out, the 30 mile an hour limit in the built-up areas——

Then if he did not, what was he talking about?

I was speaking about enforcement.

The question has not been——

What I was saying——

Order. Let us not have a repetition of last night.

The Ceann Comhairle is well aware the Minister would twist his way out of any situation, in fact lie his way out of it.

The Deputy raised the matter on the Adjournment. He ought to listen to the reply.

It was not his question and he does not understand what it was about, and the result is that he is now trying to introduce matter which was not included in the original question. Deputy Murphy knows what the question was about.

Could I ask the Minister a question?

There are only five minutes left.

What about the draft regulation of the EEC?

I would like to answer that. There is no draft regulation in the EEC. There is talk about one which they are preparing.

The quotation is there.

The mere fact that the Deputy has quoted something and has been reported in the Dáil debate as having quoted it does not make it a fact. The fact is that there is no draft regulation on speed limits in the EEC. When there is one it will be considered by the Government. Deputy Callanan said he saw a report in a newspaper that I was considering changing back again. In fact Deputy Callanan was present in the House when this discussion took place before, and I said I was considering changing the speed limit when the time was changed. I am not giving a guarantee that I will do it but I am considering it because there is a lot of virtue in doing that.

The Minister is a wise man.

The new time Minister.

Whether I am new time Minister or old time Minister, Deputy Dowling is one of these people who likes to hurl abuse from his side of the House and to interrupt when the reply is coming. He has got to take it now because he cannot avoid it. The speed limit was imposed long before either Deputy Dowling or I came in here. The speed limit was 60 miles per hour mainly and then there were special limits of 50 miles per hour and 30 miles per hour. The suggestion has been made by Deputy Dowling that there seems to be something wrong because Fianna Fáil were not in power when the 30 mile per hour limit came into effect in built-up areas. That 30 mile per hour limit has not been changed and there is no proposal to change it.

That was not what I meant.

If that was not what the Deputy meant it is extraordinary that he did not say what he meant. What he said was that he considered that a 30 mile per hour in the built-up areas——

(Interruptions.)

The Minister to conclude.

The Deputy had a quarter of an hour or 20 minutes and he made very bad use of it.

I am speaking about enforcement. I have a right——

The Deputy did the very same thing last night. When the Minister had about two minutes to conclude the Deputy rose——

The Minister was abusive.

——and disrupted the Minister's speech. Is this going to be the procedure with the Deputy on these occasions?

I told the Minister last night——

Deputy Dowling, please resume your seat.

For Deputy Murphy's information, there is a draft regulation which is being prepared and considered but it is not in operation.

Is our Minister involved in its preparation?

All the countries in the EEC are being consulted in regard to the draft regulation. I would rather make my own speech than have Deputy Murphy make it for me.

It is about time.

I am a good while in this House and during that time I have been able to make my own speeches. I have not had to wait for somebody else to put down a question for me so that I could come in afterwards in the hope that I would get a few lines in the paper because I said something peculiar.

On a point of order, was I entitled to raise this matter on the Adjournment?

I cannot prevent the Deputy from raising a point of order, but I shall hear his point of order when the time is up, not now.

The regulations of the House allow Deputy Dowling, if he is too lazy to put down a question himself, to row in on somebody else's question.

Would the Minister answer the question?

Is the Minister to be shouted down by the Deputy?

(Interruptions.)

You are protecting the Minister, as you did last night.

I am seeking to maintain order and decorum in this House, and the Deputy is making it extremely difficult for me.

I do not want the rules of order here to be broken so often, but last night and again tonight we had an example of how Fianna Fáil think this House should be dealt with. In my view, tonight's question is foolish and was put down to back up Deputy Dowling's boast to keep me here until 11 o'clock. I hope he enjoyed the half hour, because I enjoyed my share. I am considering the speed limit and when I think it is suitable again to change it I will do so. There has been only one change this year— at the beginning of the year when we changed to the 50-mile limit. If Deputy Dowling saw changes made every couple of weeks, he must have been in some other country, because it did not happen in Ireland.

On a point of order, was I entitled to raise this matter tonight on the Adjournment?

Would the Chair tell the Minister this because he does not appear to understand?

(Interruptions.)
The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 13th March, 1975.
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