Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 8 May 1975

Vol. 280 No. 9

Vote 9: Public Works and Buildings.

Minister for Local Government (Mr. Tully)

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £18,235,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1975, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of Public Works; for expenditure in respect of public buildings for the maintenance of certain parks and public works; for the execution and maintenance of drainage and other engineering works; for expenditure arising from damage to the property of External Governments; and for payment of a grant-in-aid.

Mr. J. Lynch

As was indicated, we are not opposing this but would the Minister be honest enough now and indicate why the urgency of this particular proposition? It is because the Office of Public Works are broke and they need the money? Is that the reason why we have been asked to pass this Estimate without debate?

Mr. Tully

The procedure of this House is that the Whips meet and discuss certain matters. I understand the Leader of the Opposition was aware of this before the Whips' meeting. It is a little bit petty that he should come in here and bellyache in the House over everything that arises here as if he was only one week in the House. He is long enough here to know that he is making a show of himself and of his party with his antics.

Mr. J. Lynch

May I ask why does the Minister ask the House to pass this Estimate without debate? That is a simple question and I should be given a simple answer.

Mr. Tully

The answer is that this was agreed on by the Whips, and if Deputy Lynch does not want to allow it to be passed without debate let him say so now because he cannot be on both sides at the one time. He is behaving as if he was only a couple of weeks in the House.

Mr. J. Lynch

I am not delaying.

Mr. Tully

The Deputy is delaying 20 minutes.

Mr. J. Lynch

All I want from the Government side is one little expression of frankness and honesty. I want them to tell the country why the urgency that this money must be passed this morning.

Mr. Tully

A request from Fianna Fáil for frankness and honesty makes everybody in this House——

Mr. G. Collins

No answer.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach (Mr. Kelly)

The situation, as I understand it, is that the Office of Public Works will need this money before June or at the very beginning of that month. There will be absolutely no objection whatever to debating the Estimate, as it comes, provided we could be sure that we would find time to debate it adequately and finish with it before the end of this month. There is no certainty of that, and accordingly I got agreement from the Opposition that this would be passed without debate and we would instantly put in a £10 Estimate to enable the Office of Public Works to be fully debated. We were willing to put that in this morning. The Parliamentary Secretary is here with his speech and can start this debate now. We are willing to change the Order of Business this minute if it will suit the Opposition.

Mr. J. Lynch

I am not objecting to this procedure at all. All I want is a little frankness. I am asking the Government to come clean with the country and tell us why the urgency of this particular motion.

Mr. Tully

The Leader of the Opposition should try to arrange with his Whips that they agree to something that has his agreement.

Mr. J. Lynch

We agreed on the basis that the money was required immediately. Now the Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach tells us it is required by June. However, I will not get bogged down. All I am asking is a simple answer to a simple question. Why do the Government want the money now?

(Interruptions.)

Mr. J. Lynch

I think the country are beginning to have their eyes opened now.

An Ceann Comhairle

Order.

Mr. Kelly

The conversation between the Government and myself took place on the basis that I sought agreement because I understood the money was required before June or at the latest at the beginning of June just as every Department needs money and must get it voted. If there could be any certainty that we would find time for an adequate Estimate debate —we have found very little time for Estimate debates since last Christmas because there was so much legislation —there would have been no reason to adopt this procedure but since we cannot be sure that a full Estimate debate can conclude by the end of this month this proposal was made by me and accepted by the Opposition but if they want a full debate they can have it immediately, starting now.

Mr. J. Lynch

What we want to know is why the Parliamentary Secretary made the request?

Mr. O'Malley

Because we are living on borrowed time and on the goodwill of our creditors.

The Taoiseach

Nobody is more aware of the change in procedure to facilitate the Opposition than Deputy O'Malley. It was his committee and the only recommendation that has been accepted is the one beneficial to the Opposition by which they get three extra hours a week and they are not even satisfied with that.

Mr. J. Lynch

We cannot get in on the major change——

The Taoiseach

You are whinging there from morning to night——

An Ceann Comhairle

Vote No. 9.

Mr. Wilson

In future to which Minister will I address questions on rising prices? I get rejection slips from you quite regularly.

Mr. O'Malley

Young Bruton. They put him in for the rising prices.

Mr. Tully

I remember when they put you in as a young fellow.

The Taoiseach

And, mind you, they were in a great hurry one day, the 5th May.

Mr. O'Kennedy

It is a pleasure to hear the Taoiseach talking.

(Interruptions.)

Vote put and agreed to.

Mr. J. Lynch

We want to get the schools built anyway.

Mr. Lalor

I wish to give notice of my intention to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of Question No. 10 on the Order Paper of 25th February.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.