A Cheann Comhairle, I tabled a private notice question in regard to redundancies in the Lough Swilly Railway Company last night. I had an indication from you this morning that that was being refused because the Minister had no responsibility. I would like to point out to you, for reconsideration, the fact that the Minister may not be in a position to interfere in the day-to-day working but in view of the fact that the Minister last year gave an outright grant to the Lough Swilly Railway Company, a direct action by the Minister, would the question not now be in order when redundancies are involved and when those redundancies could be obviated by another direct grant? Surely then the Minister has responsibility and you were not correct in ruling the private notice question out of order?
Business of Dáil.
What the Deputy says may be true in large measure, I do not know, but in so far as the Chair is concerned he has been informed that his question is not in order. My ruling on that matter may not be debated now. The issue is clear from the Chair's point of view. The Deputy's question relates to matters which do not come within the official responsibility of the Minister concerned. That is the position. I am sorry I cannot help the Deputy in the matter.
Did the Ceann Comhairle notice——
My ruling may not be debated.
——that I asked the Minister what he proposes to do about the imminent redundancy position among the road freight service operatives in this company? Is that not a direct question——
I am sorry, I cannot help the Deputy any further.
I am quarrelling with your decision based on the assumption that the Minister has nothing to do with it and cannot interfere. He interfered last year to the tune of £50,000.
The Minister in question has no official responsibility in the matter and the Chair is helpless.
If you allow me to raise it the Minister can say to me: "Yes, I will give a further grant to save this company" or he can say: "No, I will give no further grant to save the company".
The Deputy is being disorderly.
If these were redundancies in CIE surely the Minister would have a responsibility? The Lough Swilly Railway Company is in the same position.
I have ruled on this matter. I have informed the Deputy concerned. I cannot allow my decision to be canvassed or debated or challenged in the House. It is not in order.
Does this mean that no Member of this House can raise any question in relation either to the Lough Swilly Railway Company or to CIE or to any other body such as that?
I am not going to judge hypothetical matters. I am calling the next business.
If the Minister has no responsibility for the Lough Swilly Railway Company every question about CIE in future will be out of order. This is ridiculous.
The Chair rules only on specific matters before him. I have ruled in respect of Deputy Cunningham's case and my ruling is final.
This is a very specific matter—the redundancy of a large number of workers whose jobs can be saved by a subsidy which was given last year. There is a precedent for it. I maintain the ruling is wrong.
If the Deputy feels my ruling is wrong there is a procedure in this House for dealing with that matter. He may not challenge it now. He must accept it now.
On a point of order——
You did not take into consideration the tail end of my question which asked what the Minister is going to do about it.
The Deputy must resume his seat. He has argued long enough on a matter on which the Chair has decided. Deputy Faulkner to resume on the Social Welfare——
Will the Chair reconsider his decision?
I cannot allow this apparent injustice by the Chair to a Deputy on this side of the House.
This is disorderly conduct.
It is happening every day. It is not our fault. We are not ruling out the question.
The Chair rules in accordance with the procedures and practices of this House and in accordance with Standing Orders. If the Deputy feels that my ruling is wrong there is a procedure laid down for dealing with it but he must accept it now. That is final.
I have been in this House for 25 years and this is the first time I have had to have recourse to this course of action, and I am doing it because I am genuinely aggrieved by your decision.
The Deputy may feel aggrieved——
I believe you are not giving me fair play, that the question I asked was a legitimate one and that the matter was within the competence of the Minister. He can say: "I will give a grant as I did before", or "I have not got the money to give a grant to this company".
The Deputy will desist or leave the House. The Deputy is behaving in a disorderly fashion.
The Minister could say: "I will give some of the regional fund to this company to prevent them in an under-developed area from letting men go."
Deputy Cunningham: The Chair is on his feet. The Deputy will desist from any further interruption or leave the House.
I can see no other way of establishing my rights here.
Will the Deputy please leave the House? Will the Deputy please resume his seat or leave the House?
I refuse to resume my seat because I have been treated disgracefully by the Chair. This is a very reasonable question and one which the Minister admitted last year was within the compass of the Minister. He did something about it last year. The Chair is now telling me——
The Deputy will please leave the House.
——that the Minister has no function in it this year.
The Chair is discriminating against the West of Ireland again.
The Chair is dealing with these matters in the usual fashion.
It does not give me any pleasure that in this House after 25 years I have to fight for my rights in this way which I agree is not a proper way to do it. I am with you on that but in view of the refusal which has no basis in Standing Orders——
The Deputy will agree that it would be much easier for the Chair to allow this private notice question than to refuse it and to waste the precious time of this House in this disorderly fashion. The Chair is acting strictly in accordance with the precedents and rulings of his predecessors in this matter and in accordance with the Standing Orders of this House——
The Chair has made a mistake.
——and has informed the Deputy that the Minister concerned has no official responsibility in the matter and in that the Chair is helpless.
He subsidised the company before.
The Chair will not allow any further argument. I am calling on Deputy Faulkner to resume on the Bill.
Would the Chair be prepared to reread my private notice question and, then, reconsider his decision?
I should be only misleading the Deputy by giving him the slightest encouragement to think that my ruling could be changed.
With your permission, Sir, I propose to raise the matter on the adjournment.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
Order.
They are a disgraceful crowd and should be ashamed of themselves. They are not fit to be in a parliament.
On a point of order——
The Parliamentary Secretary is endeavouring to ruin democracy.
They pilfered the regional fund and that is why there is no money.
The people opposite should be the last ones to talk of pilfering. They are a disgraceful crowd of bullies.
There are 104,000 out of work.
Order. Deputy Connolly, on a point of order.
When I was speaking here on Wednesday last during the debate on the Estimate for Transport and Power, I was interrupted by the Chair who tried to prevent me from dealing with CIE and ESB price rises. I was ruled out of order. I want to ask now why any time I try to raise a matter here I am ruled out of order. The Ceann Comhairle sends around a little girl to deliver the bad news. I have sympathy for her. She is very courteous and diplomatic, but that does not get away from the fact that the Chair is not being fair to any Member from this side of the House.
When the people opposite find that their boss is away, they disgrace themselves.
We are not being treated fairly.
This is not in order.
We are entitled to raise various matters here.
I am calling Deputy Faulkner.
I protest strongly at the manner in which we are being treated.
Who is in charge here?
This is a disgraceful performance. Fianna Fáil should be ashamed of themselves.
The Government are bankrupt.
Order.
Look at what we are supposed to televise. The people opposite should be glad that there are not television cameras in the House.
Even those newspapers who boosted the Coalition before the general election are now referring to their bankruptcy.
On a point of order——
Deputy, please.
This will surprise you, Sir.
The Chair will not be surprised any more.
Am I right in suggesting that the Chair's submission to the House is in accordance with precedent?
Yes.
And that when something is ruled out of order it is not open to a Deputy to argue within the House as how the ruling was arrived at?
That is so.
May I suggest that the trouble arose last week when the Leader of the Opposition was given much time and latitude by the Chair to discuss such a matter. If others are following that example, they can hardly be blamed.
The Chair recognises the special position of the Leader of the Opposition——
I have never recognised any such special position where he is concerned. He is merely another Deputy and should not be afforded any special concession.
He has 66 Members behind him.
What is the Deputy talking about? The Leader of the Opposition is leading from behind. I am on my own, able to stand on my own feet.
Will Deputies please desist from interrupting so that Deputy Faulkner may resume on the Bill?
The Deputy did more harm than good.
Fianna Fáil Deputies are being dragged and pulled.
I was not dragged in here.
If it had not been for the by-election in Kildare, Deputy Power would never have been heard of. The first time I saw him was during Terry Boylan's election campaign. This is not the first time he has attempted to defend his leader, who is incapable of being defended.
Order, please.