Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 27 May 1975

Vol. 281 No. 5

Private Members' Business. - Youth Development Policy: Motion.

Mr. Wyse

I move:

That Dáil Éireann deplores the failure of the Government to produce a comprehensive policy on youth development which has had a serious effect on youth organisations throughout the country and calls on the Government to announce its policy, if any, forthwith.

The purpose of this motion is to try to get the Government to realise the importance of announcing a comprehensive policy for youth. The delay in making this announcement is doing untold damage to the existing youth structure. Despondency is now setting in in many youth organisations. Over two years ago youth councils and organisations were asked by the Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Bruton, to submit recommendations on youth development to assist the Department of Education in preparing a memorandum on youth policy. This was done and I understand that all the recommendations were of tremendous value to the officials in the Department of Education. After two years there has still been no announcement by the Government on this very important matter of youth development. Surely, after two years, the Parliamentary Secretary and the officials must have some idea of the structure they propose to submit for a youth policy. The Parliamentary Secretary must be aware that youth organisations have been suspended pending the announcement of the Government's comprehensive youth policy.

I should like now to quote from Youth Forum, which is a magazine published by the National Youth Council; it is the February/March issue for this year. Mr. Webb is chairman of the National Youth Council and he had this to say:

Mr. Webb went on to give ten examples of how the delay in the publication of the national youth policy was hindering the further development of Irish youth work.

1. In Dublin the development of Comhairle ne Leas Oige, the statutory youth body, had been brought to a standstill because of the lack of a national youth policy. Since July, 1974 a large number of the full-time youth workers had resigned due to the lack of an adequate career structure.

2. The development of attached youth work in Dublin with unattached young people, often with drug problems, had ceased because of the ill-defined role of Comhairle le Leas Oige.

That is very important. Another worthwhile point made is:

5. The recent announcement by the Minister for Local Government that no further grants were to be made under the Local Authority Amenity Grants Scheme meant that the minimal amount of finance available to support the building of youth and community centres was now no longer available.

6. The proposal by the Minister for the Gaeltacht to support the appointment of a full-time youth officer for the Connemara Gaeltacht had been vetoed by the Department of Education until the determination of a national youth policy.

In Cork city the National Youth Council is in complete disorder at the moment.

10. The development of local youth services in Limerick, Kilkenny, Waterford and other areas had been placed in jeopardy by the indecision of the Department of Education on requests to sanction the appointment of full-time youth workers. This indecision was explained by the lack of a national youth policy.

The Minister is present. Finally:

On a number of occasions in the past the Council had expressed serious concern at the under-staffing of the youth and physical recreation section of the Department of Education. At present the youth side of their work was being handled by three people, one only recently appointed. The situation was worse than it appeared because the staff were not concerned solely with youth affairs but undertook other duties as well. The staff complement was such that it was unable to deal efficiently with day-to-day administration let alone the added burden of implementing a national youth policy.

The National Youth Council caters for thousands of young people and I have no doubt they are fully aware of the adverse affects of the lack of a youth policy on the present youth structure. Some indication should be given of the Government's thinking on youth policy. This would give youth organisations some idea at least of the structure the Government have in mind. It would certainly give some encouragement to the many dedicated people who devote time and effort to promoting youth development.

The total development of all our young people must be the aim of a worthwhile national youth policy. If such a policy is to be comprehensive two conditions will have to be fulfilled. First, the policy must recognise the different needs of young people, from social survival to the fuller development of talents and, secondly, the youth services must operate from several bases, from within the schools, from youth clubs and organisations, from better facilities and adventure sports, from special services for the disadvantaged and the unattached and for the greater involvement of youth in their own local community.

Nowadays great emphasis is placed on academic education with its concentration on acquiring knowledge and skills to be tested by examinations, with a consequential apathy with regard to other aspects of education for living. We are inclined to forget the importance of social education, the growth of the whole person; we must educate the whole person to make the most of his talents, not only his brains and manual skills but also his personality, his ability to get on well with others and to play his part in society.

What are the Minister's views regarding the training of voluntary youth workers, which is a top priority in youth work? The voluntary effort is the foundation of any worthwhile structure. It is of vital importance that proper training facilities are made available to those who are prepared to undertake this work. I believe there is urgent need for a full-time regional development officer, who will examine and recommend the priorities of youth work and be responsible for the training of voluntary youth leaders.

I do not know what the Minister has in mind with regard to a comprehensive youth policy or whether it will be implemented piecemeal. We must have proper training facilities available for young people who have a love for youth leadership. The establishment of a full-time regional development officer, who will take on the responsibility of organising and promoting youth work and who will be totally responsible for the training of youth leaders, is a top priority.

Youth activities should be developed at local level. Here youth can identify their own needs and the needs of others. One of the most attractive aspects of young people today is their very sensitive awareness of the social ills and the failings of our society. Young people are prepared, if proper facilities are made available to them, to face the challenge of answering the needs of their local communities, such as helping the poor, the physically handicapped, the lonely and many other community services. Surely our young people have proved their ability in this respect when they are given the proper opportunities.

I have attended a number of youth conferences throughout the country. Nearly all the resolutions submitted had a bearing on community services. This proves beyond all doubt the awareness of young people of the needs of our community. Youth are no longer as interested as they were in playing tennis, billiards or rings. They want a challenge. The greatest challenge is the needs of their own communities. What better educational exercise could one have than to become totally involved in this kind of activity?

I would like the Minister to provide incentives for young people to become involved in youth work. Work of such a sociological nature merits a place in the examination curriculum. Those who devote themselves to this activity should get recognition for their endeavours in such a subject if they decide to opt for it. We have oral and practical tests in other subjects so it should not be outside the power of our educationalists to devise a system of assessing involvement in this field. We provide incentives for many things but it would be a great incentive to young people to become involved in youth work and community services.

This is a social education which is of vital importance to young people. Recently I addressed a youth seminar in University College Cork. The theme of the seminar was to help young people finishing at university understand the community they are going into. It is important, whether they be doctors, engineers or social workers, that our young people know the kind of community they live and earn their living in. The views expressed at that seminar were most encouraging.

We should have an announcement from the Government regarding their comprehensive youth policy. I place a lot of emphasis on this because I know the present structure is in complete disarray. There are the questions of financing, training and premises, which I hope to deal with this evening. Specially designed buildings are of vital importance to young people. I am talking here of buildings which will cater for all the activities of young people as well as the work of community associations within the one building so that both are linked together. Under the one roof we will then have the various services provided by the community and also facilities for youth activities such as physical education, a good library and all the training facilities needed.

We then come to finance. I know the Minister will probably say that there is not sufficient money available to provide the necessary facilities for young people. I have said on many occasions, irrespective of who is in Government, that Governments will always find money. Surely youth concils and organisations have established a strong case for finance. I have seen many worthwhile projects organised by young people which had to be abandoned because of lack of finance. We talk about the vandalism all around the country. We will continue to have vandalism so long as we fail to make available the necessary money to provide proper facilities for our young people.

I heard on the radio this afternoon the 50,000 young people leaving school this year will fail to secure any kind of employment. We must have regard to the frustration which will prevail among those young people. We know what happened in Canada when the position was similar there. They were roaming through the streets. There were acts of vandalism, murder, you name it. The Canadian Government had to face that challenge. They made money available for the employment of young people during the summer vacation.

I strongly recommend to the Government that a fund should be set up for the years ahead so that young boys and young girls will not have to spend three months of their vacation roaming the streets with little or nothing to do. They have something to offer, especially students from the universities. Social scientists should be employed in the areas where they are needed. It is important that our young people should be occupied during the long period of the school break. This may be new thinking. I would welcome this kind of thinking. It is needed. Just imagine 50,000 school leavers who fail to secure employment this year, plus the thousands of young people who used to get holiday work which is no longer available to them. Then we talk of frustration. We talk of vandalism.

There has been massive neglect in the field of residential care. There has been a complete failure to provide residential care for boys and girls who need it. We see in the evening papers that a justice has to release boys back into society because there is no place available to train them. They are not many, but they are still there. The unfortunate thing is that they become the leading vandals. They recruit other young people. We have experience of this all over the country. People like that have gone through the streets and into the dancehalls recruiting young boys and girls to follow them. How long more will this continue? When a justice fails to put a boy into a residential home, within a week that boy has recruited 11 more.

These boys are pleading for help. There is no guidance in the home for them, no advice. Surely if we had properly trained people in residential homes this would be of great assistance to these young people. When the Minister is announcing a comprehensive policy on youth I hope this will be one of his priorities. We do not need the type of leadership to which I have referred. We have enough of these people at the moment roving our streets.

The school attendance officer is usually the first to detect when a boy or girl is going wrong. It starts with non-attendance at school. The Department should organise seminars for school attendance officers so that they will know exactly how to handle cases of this kind. We have found in Cork, and I am sure it has been found elsewhere, that the first indication that a young person is going wrong is nonattendance at school. I say that from my own experience and I am sure the Minister will agree with me.

I would be very much in favour of negotiations between the Department of Education and the Department of Local Government with a view to exempting youth clubs and community buildings from rates. Customs and excise duty should be removed from sporting equipment which has to be imported. People dedicate their time and their effort to providing clubs and community buildings for young people and then we levy them with a very substantial rate. Wonderful people who are working in this field spend most of their time trying to raise sufficient money to pay the rates and keep the buildings in some kind of proper order when they should be giving of their experience and time to young people. Surely it is not beyond the capacity of the Department of Local Government to derate such buildings.

I attended a function recently where I discovered that it cost something in the region of £1,500, if not more, to import a rowing boat. Between import duty and turnover tax, or whatever you like to call it, it costs another couple of hundred pounds. Yet it is being imported to provide a facility for young people.

There are many other kinds of equipment for this specific training. There is no point in our encouraging people to give of their time and effort in organising and providing facilities for young people while, at the same time, we place a very heavy burden on them by way of rates and import duties. This would cost little or nothing and would encourage youth organisations to develop and to expand their premises had they a guarantee that they would not be levied by the rating authorities. I make a very special appeal to the Minister to commence negotiations with the Minister for Local Government on this very important aspect. It would mean a great deal to people who give of their time and effort in promoting youth work. I am inundated with people writing to me asking me if this can be done and why it should not be done. I agree that some move must be made in this direction to ease the burden on people of that kind.

While speaking about young people, it is only right also to mention the involvement of adults in their work. We hear so much about vandalism today and it can be said we are reaping the results of past neglect because adults refused to involve themselves in the work of young people. In the comprehensive policy we await from the Government on this important aspect I hope some reference will be made to their involvement in the work of young people. There should be no further delay in making this announcement. It is now of vital importance and I have quoted the magazine of the National Youth Council. I could quote many others who are pleading at this very moment with the Department of Education and with the Minister to make this announcement, or at least give us some indication what the Government have in mind where a youth policy is concerned. We are away behind other countries. It is little wonder that all this comes to light at the Olympics. We may send the best we have out but, unfortunately, they do not have the same training facilities at other nations.

I hope the Minister will make some contribution in this debate and will give us some indication before it is too late that the Government are serious about introducing a comprehensive youth policy.

Minister for Education (Mr. R. Burke)

When I took office as Minister for Education in 1973 I found that though the Department of Education had since 1969 been assisting youth and sports organisations by the payment of annual grants to the governing bodies of these organisations, there was not in existence any comprehensive statement of objectives which might serve even as the basis of a youth policy. Youth organisations had, by and large, to make their own way in a very difficult area and the absence of an overall plan or strategy was, to my mind, a serious handicap for them.

We have all passed through the adolescent stage, and we all should know that many formative experiences of young people occur in their free or leisure time and, accordingly, that the aim of youth work should be the provision of activities and facilities to enable young people to use this time to develop personally, to appreciate the many advantages of a well-ordered society and to contribute to that society.

And so with my approval on 14th August, 1973 my Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy John Bruton, who has special responsibility for youth and sport, appointed an advisory panel to assist him in the formation of a youth policy document. This panel, which comprised educationists, sociologists and administrators, was experienced in the complexities of youth work and was conscious of the pitfalls which the ever-changing nature of youth needs presents to the policy maker in this area. The problems which arise are of considerable complexity. They are also universal in their nature and many countries, with greater resources, have, for one reason or another, failed to find a successful solution to them.

There is the further consideration that while youth work alone can never play a major role in remedying the physical and economic causes of social deprivation, it can uncover the potential of young people, encourage optimism and ambition and provide the skills for communal self-help and self-government. This potential can only be uncovered by establishing links between the potential for service inherent in young people and appropriate further guidance. In this connection it appeared to the panel that five main objectives appeared to be deserving of further consideration as follows: (i) education, (ii) recreation, (iii) counselling, (iv) voluntary service and (v) community development.

Education sets out to help people to acquire skills to cope to the maximum of their ability with the world around them. It is more than just the acquisition of knowledge; it is the opening up of the mind to new fields of interests and the development of new skills.

Education is not the sole prerogative of schools and is not limited in relation to any time or place in the life of any person. The urge to learn is universal—the only requirements for success are that the subject is seen by the student to be useful and is developed in an environment acceptable to him. If formal schooling is a failure for some young people, then "second chance" or out-of-school education may provide the only solution to their problems at a later stage. But out-of-school education has not got a captive audience. Neither law nor economic necessity ordains the pupils' attendance and the class will disappear unless the programme is imaginative and stimulating.

The second objective of the panel was recreation for young people. Recreation plays an important part in youth work and, indeed, often prompts the creation of youth clubs. Recreation has been defined as that which "refreshes, entertains and agreeably occupies". However, successful recreation has rarely a single purpose—it usually has other attractions such as improving knowledge or enabling people to meet one another.

The third objective identified was counselling for young people since it may well be in a youth club that a young person with a problem will first admit to needing help. Those working with young people should know something about counselling, the limits of their own ability to deal with what may very well be a complex psychological problem and knowledge of the availability of the professional services to cater for such problems.

Opportunities for voluntary service by young people was designated the fourth objective. One of the most praiseworthy developments in youth work in recent years is the emphasis being placed on services freely given by young people to those in greater need than themselves. Youth service now means service by young people as well as a service to young people. Young people have resources of energy and ingenuity that few adults can match and the opportunities for voluntary service by young people must be increased, so that the fabric of society may be enriched.

The fifth objective, that of enabling young people to contribute to the development of the community, is important in view of the legacy of human problems which technological advances have left in our modern society. For many people the traditional rural or village community has been replaced by an anonymous urban society or an isolated low density rural environment. The best antidote to the consequent problems and the best means of rebuilding community life is the development of voluntary organisations. The energy and altruism of youth must be fully involved whether as individuals or through their own organisations and any youth policy must plan for this type of approach.

Deputies who have made a study of the matter will realise that drawing up a youth policy is difficult and complex. It is not sufficient or appropriate to think of youth in this context as an abstract grouping of young people without regard to their individual characteristics, emotions, interests and susceptibilities. It is also necessary to have regard to the traditions, aims and activities of the various organisations to which they belong and to respect the views and outlook of the adults whose help and co-operation enables the organisations to be established and maintained.

It is not, in my view, at all appropriate to think of the provision of services to young people in the context of State support within a framework of a rigid pattern of organisation. I am somewhat appalled at the selective use of statistics sometimes used to support a particular point of view. No regard is had to the different circumstances affecting young people at school, out of school, students in their early teens, students at a later stage in education or employment, young people engaged in drama groups, music societies, or a wide variety of courses, educational or artistic, young people devoting much of their time to sports, athletics, and so on. For the purpose of presentation of a picture of the adequacy or inadequacy of facilities for the healthy use by young people of leisure time, we are implicitly invited to ignore all these activities and regard the general provision made as entirely inadequate, if these young people may not also be induced to participate in other forms of particular activities which can be categorised, enumerated and labelled as falling within the particular type of youth activity.

I consider that a suitable effective youth policy must make maximum provision for encouragement, for flexibility and self-development. It should be characterised by a strong sense of self-initiative and independence. The emphasis should be on the opportunities made available for young people from which they should take the maximum advantage—libraries, museums, sports facilities, community activities—and that in making use of these opportunities, they should also contribute their part towards expanding and maintaining them.

There will never in any country, as all experience shows, be financial resources available equal to or in excess of the demands being made upon them at any particular time. The provision of additional funds for youth service is being expanded. I readily admit that the demands for a wide variety of facilities are of an order that to some extent reflects an inadequacy of an appreciation of the value of much of the work that is being done in this area and of a failure to recognise the changing circumstances which create new needs which have to be met in a way which differs from what was our experience in the past. I cannot help feeling, however, that some of the claims being made for financial and professional aid of one kind or another do not take adequate cognisance of the measure of our financial resources or that the examples which are quoted of expenditure of other countries do not show evidence that there is a sufficient understanding of the significance of the figures quoted or of the relative magnitude in the context of the population of the countries concerned. In particular, they do not seem to have sufficient regard to the part which voluntary service plays in the provision of community activities of all kinds for both young and old.

There is a very important role which the State can play in helping various organisations to co-operate in activities which are common to them all which, individually, they could not themselves undertake. It is also true that the cost of various forms of capital equipment is very often beyond the resources of an individual organisation or group of organisations, without the help of some subsidy from the larger community. I would wish to see voluntary organisations, with their voluntary workers, being helped to the maximum degree possible in this respect. I would regard this as a priority leading only subsequently and on a graduated basis towards the employment of what are generally termed as "professional" workers. I believe that voluntary workers giving of their time and services should be helped to secure a standard of support and equipment which a professional worker would demand as a fundamental requirement in the exercise of his profession.

While I have spoken about general points, I now wish to turn to an explanation of the continuing work which is going on in the Department of Education in regard to youth policy in general.

While the general principles which must form the basis of a future youth policy are being considered and evaluated in the continuing work and existing activities in various sectors I must emphasise that the activities have not been allowed to suffer from lack of attention or support. The amount of money allocated to youth organisations has been increased dramatically since the present Government took office. For example, in the current year a total of £156,150 has been allocated to voluntary youth organisations as against £57,050 in 1972-73. This marks an increase of 174 per cent. In addition the allocation to Macra na Tuaithe in the current year amounts to £62,200 as against £19,000 in 1972-73. This is an increase of 230 per cent.

The allocation to Comhairle le Leas Óige through the Dublin Vocational Education Committee has also advanced considerably but even more significantly, in the case of Comhairle le Leas Óige, steps have been taken to regularise the position of the seven youth workers employed by An Chomhairle. These workers who were originally employed on a temporary basis have now been offered permanent pensionable posts in the services of the Dublin Vocational Education Committee. Conditions of service for these workers are being drawn up at the moment. Deputy Wyse, when quoting from a Youth Council document, was using a document which may be a little out of date in the light of these facts.

Other significant steps forward have been taken in the current year. For example, a fund of £16,000 has been established for assisting regional youth councils on a nationwide basis. This is a completely new departure that was decided on with a view to cultivating the programmes of regional councils pending the implementation of a comprehensive national policy.

In addition a special project scheme has been set up which will assist two organisations to develop centres in County Westmeath and County Kerry which will among other things provide educational holiday courses in a rural setting for children from deprived urban areas. As well as assisting these centres, the Cork Youth Project has also benefited under the scheme.

My Department have also sanctioned grants to the Cork Youth Council and the Limerick Diocesan Youth Council towards the employment of youth workers. The appointment of adult education organisers has been sanctioned in other areas, notably in Counties Meath and Kilkenny.

Another new departure has been the allocation of a grant of £5,000 to an organisation, Contact, which assists young displaced persons in the Dublin area. This fills, to some extent, a gap left by the Comhairle workers in the central Dublin city area. An interdepartmental committee has been nominated to examine the work of this organisation with a view to seeing how its counselling services can be best extended to other areas.

An important element of the grants scheme has been aimed at developing the educational content of the various programmes of the organisations.

A fund of £2,000 has been set aside to assist the training programme of uniformed organisations and in the case of the Catholic Youth Council provision has been made for an educational programmer. The grant to uniformed organisations special training scheme represents a speedy response by the Parliamentary Secretary to NYC's submission. Provisions in the allocations for voluntary service have also been increased significantly from £2,850 in 1972-73 to £6,600 in the current year. This represents an increase of 131 per cent.

In parallel on the international front, links have been strengthened with the French Government under the Franco-Irish Cultural Agreement and rapid developments in exchange schemes for youth and sport are taking place. Approaches are also being made to Germany and the United Kingdom with the same object in mind. I would like to pay tribute to the Parliamentary Secretary whose personal involvement in the area of the Franco-Irish Cultural Agreement is well known. I think it can be said with justification that Deputy Bruton is the first Parliamentary Secretary to give youth work the prominence which it deserves and that he is prepared to talk frankly to youth organisations about their problems rather than avoid complex issues through the use of platitudes and evasions. He has invited specific recommendations and has informed representatives of the National Youth Council that he would be glad to have a submission from them on any matters which are the cause of particular concern to them.

On the point made by the Deputy and by others that progress is being held up because of a lack of policy, I think people who so contend should be asked to identify the precise proposals that are being held up. They should be asked to state how much these will cost and why the youth organisations cannot themselves cater for them from the greatly increased resources I have just mentioned. The Parliamentary Secretary has told the National Youth Council that he would be glad to have submissions on these precise proposals which they allege they are worried about. So, those who complain that lack of policy leaves organisations with a lack of "overall guidance" should remember that it is a matter for the youth organisations themselves to evolve their own policy. That is what voluntary organisations are for. Our policy will be concerned with the framework for Government support and will not lay down policies for individual organisations.

I would submit the following as basic principles which could be annunciated:

(1) to support and never supplant voluntary initiatives and organisations;

(2) to develop the training and skill of adult volunteer youth workers as the key people in youth work;

(3) to link youth work with adult education and sport so as to have an integrated approach to community development;

(4) to ensure that identifiable targets are set and to encourage the reallocation of resources from less to more successful initiatives;

(5) to involve youth organisations in a much more concrete, practical way in policy formulation at national and local level;

—this is very important—

(6) not to tie up resources in permanent but potentially redundant expenditures for example, buildings, permanent full-time youth worker posts;

(7) to make maximum use of resources physical and personal which we already have by encouraging the innovative use thereof.

For those who allege that the Department of Education, the Minister or the Parliamentary Secretary promised a youth policy at any particular time I would like to say that a youth policy was not promised by a particular time. It was undertaken by the Department of Education themselves and was not hived off to some commission or other which could be used as blametaker. This might have been what was done by other groups; we have not attempted to do this.

In a short space of some two years we have done a massive amount of work towards the production of a comprehensive policy and in the past 2½ years we have not heard one constructive policy idea put forward by the Opposition to help us.

All these measures show that the Department have not stood still while policy is being finalised but there has been a notable advance and a firm and positive direction in the last two years.

In conclusion I would like to express my personal appreciation of the services rendered by the Advisory Panel on Youth in the formulation of proposals for a youth policy and also to the National Youth Council, the Catholic Youth Council and Macra na Tuaithe who have always been readily available for consultation with problems encountered during the study which has been carried out.

I must also express my admiration for the work being done by the scout and girl guide organisations for young people at a very formative stage in their lives. There are many other groups also to whom I should wish to make specific reference but I include them in my thanks to the National Youth Council to which they are affiliated.

When this policy, on which so much work has been done is produced, it will be a monument to the interest of the Parliamentary Secretary in youth affairs and will guide the destiny of youth policy in this country for the remainder of this century. I would like to commend him in the House for the work he has done under my direction.

Mr. Power

I have listened very attentively to the Minister and I must compliment the civil servant who produced that wonderful spate of sound and fury that signifies absolutely nothing. The Minister says that when this policy is produced it will be a monument to Deputy Bruton's work for youth for the remainder of the century.

Mr. R. Burke

No. The formulation of policy.

Mr. Power

Unless the progress is stepped up, and if the last two years are the criterion of what is going to happen for the remainder of this Government's term in office, be it long or short, I am afraid the policy will not have evolved and will not have been published——

Mr. Wilson

It will be a cenotaph, an empty tomb.

Mr. Power

The unknown soldier, because by that time Deputy Bruton will be unknown, being a man who did not produce anything. Our reason for putting down this motion is that we are frustrated by the two years' delay in introducing a comprehensive youth policy. I have listened to Deputy Bruton at Question Time here, and I was under the impression from the answers he gave that he had in mind giving us the details of his youth policy long before now. From listening to the Minister here tonight I know they have no policy. He mentioned people who were prone to using pious platitudes. His own speech tonight was pickled with pious platitudes interspersed here and there with a list of hand-outs of money that he had given to any Tom, Dick or Harry during the last few years in an effort to bolster up inactivity with statistics, to prove that he has done something.

We have a Parliamentary Secretary. I would like to know what he has produced during that time, what he has done to help youth. We were promised a policy, but I have not seen any sign of that yet, and we are told here tonight that he is still soliciting submissions from people. The gullible youth leaders I know and Deputy Wyse is acquainted with have waited for this policy. They met Deputy Bruton and expected something, but up to now they have got nothing. I would suggest to the Minister that maybe he is too chary, maybe he is acting in too responsible a fashion. Two years is a long time to wait. The young people of today will not be young much longer. The people who were 14 when the Coalition came into office are now 16. Unfortunately they will not have a vote before the Government have to ask them to pass judgment on their term of office at the next election, but they will have one shortly after that.

When this Government took office the Tánaiste and Leader of the Labour Party promised an entirely new policy to be implemented by the Government to solve the problems that affect all our people. The youth are a very vital section of those people, and I am afraid we have not approached their problems with any sign of determination or any sign of a policy. The Taoiseach, when he spoke on education before the last election, promised consultation with parents and school authorities, teachers and students, in an effort to improve the position. I cannot see any evidence of that happening. Young people of today who are, by their nature, cynical of the powers-that-be, have every reason to be more cynical still and more disbelieving when they consider the inactivity and the false promises and see the hopes they had dashed to the ground. It could well be that a whole generation of youth will not have received any guidance or support from this government.

Have the Government a policy? As far as I can see their policy is to hand out so many thousands of pounds. It is debatable whether the real value of that money is maintained, whether an increased allocation of 174 per cent from the time we left office is a real increase or not. This is a piecemeal, haphazard way of working. They should ask themselves what is their long-term view. We had this advisory panel established—whether it was August, 1974 or 1973 I am not sure; August is usually the month when newspapers look for some crazy news. It is high time that the advisory panel's advice was taken and something was done.

What have they in mind in regard to the personnel they will need to implement their youth policy? By all means make use of the voluntary people, but I am convinced that trained personnel will be needed to deal with the structures set up. A certain amount of funding will be needed, and some buildings. Although the Minister does not like to see his money going to waste on buildings, they are very essential.

We in our party have a concern for young people. We see them as zealous, unselfish and truthful. I have experience of them as being anxious to get involved and help in the community. We had a youth conference in our party which was a revelation for those who might not have fully appreciated how much young people would like to get involved. It is our policy to allow this interest to blossom.

It is the duty of the Government to establish very close liaison between Government Departments, and particularly the Department of Education, and all youth organisations. We must gear our programme towards a continuing youth education policy and decide on the type of structure that is best for that. I would suggest a local structure, because the local people know the problem, and possibly a regional structure and then a national structure.

Nobody knows the needs of any local community better than the people there themselves, and the vital person dealing with the youth is the youth leader. The youth leader needs training and financial help. Up to now youth leaders have not been trained. They have just evolved because they were interested. They had the dedication; they had some little expertise they were willing to impart, people who were very unselfish and devoted a considerable amount of their time and talent to youth. Some people may say they did not do everything we would wish but, no matter what the results were, at least they tried to do something concrete. We can see something for their efforts, but they have got very little help. At local level some people who had a particular expertise, for example as physical education instructors—and that is understandable in a military community such as we live in in Kildare— have produced young gymnasts of a very high calibre who have gone abroad and represented our country very creditably. Much more will have to be done. Young people are anxious to help but they need guidance and it is the duty of everybody to show them there is an alternative to the public-house or the lounge bar or the blaring music of a dimly-lit disco.

The Minister spoke in fine words about recreation and how it should be used, and he expressed many pious platitudes. I should like to think that something at a national level will be done as was initiated by Macra na Feirme who were established in my area 20 years ago. Since that time they have revolutionised the farming community. At the beginning they were set up with the intention of bringing people together but they branched out into educational matters. I have long association with them. I remember the competitions, the question times, the winter farm schools and the trips abroad. That type of activity in rural areas has done wonders. Representatives of the farming community who were loath to stand up and express their views some years ago are now well able to speak and have become leaders of their communities and in many cases national leaders.

The real danger in lack of a youth policy lies not so much in rural areas but in urban complexes. With the present atmosphere, they could be the seedbeds of trouble for future generations. It is unbelievable that the Government would do nothing in this field for another year. The Minister seemed to decry the need to spend money on buildings.

In my parish, where we have a closely-knit community, there was need for a hall. We provided a hall in a backward area and in the past couple of years we have gathered £13,000 to build a new centre which would cater for the needs of the area. We had hoped the Government would continue the amenity grant scheme this year but the Minister for Local Government decided against it. To prove that we are not as unconscious of the needs of the public as the Minister for Local Government, we discussed this matter at yesterday's meeting of Kildare County Council and we hope to devise a scheme through which, when local people have shown they are bona fide attempting to raise money, when half the money is available the county council hope to provide the other half by way of interest-free loan. If the Government had an interest in matters such as this they would set a headline by helping groups such as that.

In many youth clubs in my county, and I presume this applies elsewhere, the main problem is that it is very difficult to get the different strata of society involved. In many areas the well-off stay shy of youth clubs and their activities. We have a system which is tied to various schools up to university level where gymnasia can be made available. Comprehensive schools can help where all the children are under one roof in one campus.

Like Deputy Wyse, I deplore the fact that school leavers this year will find it hard to get jobs. This was not so when Fianna Fáil were in office. I suppose the Arabs will have to take the blame for this too. The devil finds work for idle hands and we should be able to offer children an alternative to the thoughts of vandalism that will enter their heads. We should try to counter the new cults that are prevalent particularly in urban areas. I should like the Minister to point out the alternatives he and his Department have.

I have a growing family and I am glad to see them involved in games and athletics. I appreciate what the GAA and the soccer people have been doing for young people. They provide games and opportunities for recreation and keep them out of harm's way.

On the educational side, it is necessary that we follow up the early school leavers, those who leave at 16 years. Some of them go into dead-end jobs. Incentives should be provided for them to go back later and take up the books where they had left off. A school has been sponsored by the Kildare County Vocational Education Committee with the co-operation of the Army authorities where people who could not continue after the national school are in a position to pursue intermediate and leaving certificate courses. They have been doing very well.

In one of our new housing estates in Leixlip, although there has been a great demand for night classes, the demand seems to have come from the wrong people, usually people who could afford to pay for adult education if they wanted it. The people who have the greatest need of adult education have not availed of this opportunity.

Generally, what I am advocating is a national structure co-ordinating all the efforts of youth clubs rather than having sporadic efforts. I suggest that we set up a training system for youth leaders. In that way we would be doing something realistic. I suggest that the Department change their minds about the availability of funds towards the making available of facilities and buildings.

The Minister said one thing that I agree with. He referred to the extension of career guidance outside schools —that we would have the highly qualified people who give advice in the schools to extend the service to those outside schools. This would help such people to live fuller and more meaningful lives. I hope the Department will co-operate in this.

In my county I have seen hundreds of examples of community efforts. I have in mind particularly the efforts that have been made in Kilcullen where, after the sudden death of one of our people in 1970, the Club 70 was formed. That group have continued to progress and has led to marvellous community efforts such as the annual Community Capers. They go to St. Vincents each year to regale the people there and to make life happier for them. I should like to pay tribute to the people who are involved in the community games. This has given a great impetus to athletics at local level and to a nation which has possibly gone very lazy, indeed, as far as athletics are concerned. I see many people, both lay and religious, who have devoted much of their leisure time towards keeping clubs going and I feel that if those people were unfortunate enough to be in the Gallery here tonight, listening to the Minister, they would not have gleaned one iota of hope from anything he said. These people need help and guidance and, above all, I am confident that they need an overall plan, a target towards which they can work. We have tabled this motion with a view to waking up the Government even at this eleventh hour and asking them to give these people and youth movements in general the chance they deserve.

Mr. O'Brien

I welcome the opportunity to speak on any motion relating to youth. Basically, we all recognise that our future depends on youth, on how we treat them and how, indeed, we equip them and develop them for the future but for the Opposition to put down a blasé motion deploring the Government's inactivity—we have not been on this side of the House for 16 years; we have been here for only three years——

Mr. Wilson

And you will not be.

Mr. O'Brien

We will be here. I have no doubt about that because the opposition you are providing is deplorable. The Opposition put down this motion and did not put forward one constructive suggestion. All they did was talk about moneys paid to Tom, Dick and Harry.

Mr. Wilson

Particularly Dick.

Mr. O'Brien

These people are not just Tom, Dick and Harry. The whole approach of the Opposition to this is negative and that is regrettable, and to use their own words, deplorable.

Mr. Molloy

What is the Government approach?

Mr. O'Brien

The Minister indicated that there is a policy in the pipeline.

Mr. Power

In the pipe dream.

An Ceann Comhairle

Up to now this debate has been devoid of interruption. The Chair would like it to remain so.

Mr. O'Brien

I am scratching them a little and it hurts. They realise what a poor lot they are over there and when I say these things, they do antagonise them a little. We have a serious situation here in relation to discussing youth policy and its formation, in what way we are moving towards it and the whole matter of vandalism within our society and what is causing it. These are the things we should be talking about and talking about in very serious vein. As an urban Deputy, I am concerned with vandalism in our society. What are the causes? Have we examined them? The mere giving of money to youth groups is not sufficient.

We have to examine the reasons for vandalism in our society. Many of them stem from bad planning, bad housing, and education, particularly in the primary sector of which I spoke before. To dole out money is not facing our responsibility or the problem. What we have to do is to examine the reasons and eliminate the causes. If we can do something in this regard and if we can achieve something when this motion has finally been disposed of, I believe that the motion will have been worthwhile in the sense that we had an open discussion on it.

To expect a plan or a youth policy overnight, I think would be blasé and, indeed, a type of thinking which would achieve nothing. I think this because it is the first development, the first effort to come to grips with this problem. It does take time. It is a very complex problem because we cannot isolate youth away from society. We have to make it part of society and I would like to see the formation of youth within our community development. We have quite a vast movement in this direction and I believe that if we can encompass youth policy and guidance within that framework, we shall be moving in the right direction. As the Minister mentioned, there are many vacant buildings —I am speaking of schools—which could be used effectively at night— to develop the community and give it a more realistic approach. I should like to see a greater emphasis on adult education so that people——

Mr. Wilson

Let the Minister get the report working.

Mr. O'Brien

If we can develop and concentrate on adult education, it will reflect itself right back to the home because no matter what we say, the responsibility must devolve back upon the home.

Family life is what will determine the kind of society we are to have. Adult education made available to those people who for one reason or another failed to take advantage of or did not get the opportunity in their youth to educate themselves would re-itself within the home and the family. In that way I believe we would have far less vandalism and a much better attitude towards society. We are not coming up with motions relating to our senior citizens, and what are we doing for them? I do not believe that we should be just talking about youth on its own but about the community as such.

I know that my local authority, the corporation, have set up a community and environment department in which there are community officers who work effectively in the field co-ordinating the activities of the various groups within given areas, bringing them together and building a stronger and more viable community. I should also like to see this operating in the area of youth and that we would have youth officers and youth leaders within our local authority. We could start with small numbers and add to them as required and they would go out and act as leaders in the community, as trainers, as people who guide the activities of the voluntary bodies. The role of the voluntary bodies is paramount. We should help them and not erode their activities and work. These voluntary bodies have done a great amount of work. I look forward to the introduction of an overall policy, not necessarily for youth but a community policy, that will bring a new attitude to our society.

Debate adjourned.