andMr. Farrell asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will ensure that the Hours of Trading Order, 1947 will be enforced in respect of supermarkets in Dundalk and Drogheda, County Louth.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Trading Hours Order Enforcement.
6.
I can assure the Deputies that every effort will continue to be made to ensure that the order to which they refer is enforced.
I understand that prosecutions have been brought by the Gárda in respect of breaches of the order in Drogheda and Dundalk and that the proprietors of a number of shops in Dundalk, including supermarkets, have been fined. I understand that cases in respect of a Drogheda shop are being referred to the High Court and that, because of this, the hearing of cases in respect of another Drogheda shop has been adjourned until later in the year.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that last year the Minister suspended those trading orders for a period of three months so as to give traders an opportunity to decide what they wanted and that the result was a majority of 97 per cent in Dundalk and 95 per cent in Drogheda in favour of the trading hours remaining as they were and as they had been for the past 30 years? However, in the autumn of last year there was opened a supermarket complex in Dundalk and this organisation advertised to the effect that they would be open late for trading. They have persisted in this although they have been prosecuted and fined.
We are having a statement from the Deputy.
The matter is very important from the point of view of the traders in Dundalk. I am not a Deputy who takes up a lot of the time of the House.
I appreciate that but information must be elicited at Question Time by way of question.
The traders concerned remain open late on Thursday and Friday nights against the wishes of 97 per cent of the traders in Dundalk and 95 per cent in Drogheda. These people are in contempt and the other traders are anxious to know what steps are to be taken to deal with the situation.
The Deputy is right in saying that the Minister suspended the application of the order for three months in order to allow submissions to be received and that the majority of the submissions were in favour of the retention of the order. In December, 1974, the Minister decided that the order should remain in force. My information is that the order is being enforced and that in relation to Dundalk, an undertaking was given to the court that no further breaches of the order would occur. As I indicated, in the case of Drogheda, there is an appeal to the High Court on a point of law and a decision in that matter is awaited.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that in respect of the Dundalk case, the undertaking given to the court has been broken continually, that this supermarket remains open late on Thursday and Friday of every week? The other traders in the town are anxious to know what is proposed to be done to deal with the situation.
The Minister has indicated that not only are the orders in force but that he is anxious that they be enforced. My information is that they are being enforced.
That is not so.
The question of the enforcement of the order is a matter for the Garda authorities and my information is that they are enforcing the order. However, if the Deputy has any case in mind he should refer it to the Garda authorities.
The order is being breached every week.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that since the first court case in this regard the small businessmen who had been involved in late opening have maintained the law by closing their premises at the appointed time but that the large supermarket continues to remain open in defiance of the law? Obviously, it is beneficial financially for them to do so despite the fine imposed on them. Can the Parliamentary Secretary say whether the existing law makes it possible to ensure that the shops close at the times laid down by the Minister?
I understand that it is so possible.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware——
We must not remain unduly long on this question.
In spite of the fact that the Parliamentary Secretary says it is possible the fact is that it is not happening. I would like the Parliamentary Secretary to look at this matter again because it would appear to me, from experience, that it simply is not possible, under the law as it stands, to guarantee that shops will close. I would, therefore, ask the Parliamentary Secretary to reconsider this whole matter and to see what exactly he can do to make the law effective or to bring the various groups together to see if he can reach a solution which is agreeable to all of them and to the benefit of the public generally.
I have no information to the effect that the Garda Síochána are having any difficulty in enforcing these orders. In fact court hearings on foot of prosecutions took place on 13th December, 1974, on the 8th January, 23rd April and 7th May, 1975 and I understand that some further prosecutions in the hands of the Garda Síochána are pending. Therefore the orders are being enforced.
I would accept what the Parliamentary Secretary has said in relation to the gardaí, that they are endeavouring to the best of their ability to enforce the law, but——
A question, Deputy.
——even though the gardaí are enforcing the law this is not ensuring that the supermarkets close and the supermarkets continue to open in defiance of the law.
We are having speeches on this. Question No. 7.
I am asking the Parliamentary Secretary to look at the whole situation and see what he can do to help.
If the Deputy has information about the law being broken he should report it to the Garda Síochána.
Question No. 7.
May I ask——
I have given the Deputy every latitude.
I accept that you have, but I am asking the Parliamentary Secretary to again look at the matter. I am not contesting that the gardaí are doing the best they can to enforce the law, but it is not ensuring that the shops are closing. Would the Parliamentary Secretary agree to look at it again and see what can be done?
I will keep the whole situation under review.
Why did the Minister run out and not answer the question himself?
Because I am dealing with these matters and I will continue to deal with them.