asked the Minister for Defence why an ex-Army member (details supplied) who had over 40 years' service in the Army was allowed only 31 years as pensionable service.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Army Pensioner.
19.
Under the Defence Forces (Pensions) Schemes, maximum pension and gratuity are payable to a non-commissioned officer or private on completion of 31 years' service. In accordance with the established practice in the public service credit is not given for years in excess of the number of years required for maximum superannuation benefits. It should be borne in mind that a soldier can retire on pension at any time after 21 years' service and that, during his Army service he is fully insured under the Social Welfare Acts.
Does the Minister realise that members of the Civil Service are guaranteed full pensionable service for each year's service? Why is the same system not applied to members of the Army? Are they considered second-rate citizens?
I could not agree with the Deputy. To qualify for maximum pension a civil servant must have 40 years' service. For that he gets 50 per cent of his pay on retirement. A member of the Garda Síochána qualifies for maximum pension after 30 years' service and receives no further addition to his pension. An Army man qualifies for maximum pension after 31 years' service.
A civil servant's pension is 50 per cent of his pay but in the case of an Army man it varies. It is 46.6 per cent of his pay in the case of a company quartermaster sergeant, and 52.9 per cent of his pay for a private. If he retired after 31 years' service, having started serving at the same time as a civil servant, he would have nine years' pension drawn before the civil servant. If I were to take the better scheme, I would take the Army pension scheme.
That is a very elaborate explanation. Will the Minister compare the pension an Army man would get with that of a civil servant who has 31 years' service?
The civil servant would have to serve 40 years to get 50 per cent of his pay. The company quartermaster gets 46.6 per cent of his pay after 31 years, the private gets 52.9 per cent.
Forget the percentages. Would a civil servant who had served 31 years get a bigger pension than the soldier who had served the same length of time?
The Deputy must avoid repetition at Question Time.
It depends on the rank at which the person retires. The examples I have given indicate that the Army man is fairly treated.
I am not talking of rank. I am afraid the army men are second rate.
Does the Minister contemplate a general examination of the entire pension scheme to eliminate many of the existing anomalies and to ensure that the injustices to pensioners will be eliminated in the future?
I am constantly examining the pension and pay schemes to see how we can help. In relation to the last 5 per cent increase granted to civil service and Army personnel it was decided not to apply the increase to recruits and that allowed other ranks to get more, in some cases as high as 9 per cent. For the non-commissioned officers and men that was a much appreciated change. That is an example of how the officers of my Department and myself are keeping an eye on such matters.
I do not accept that there are anomalies. I have said many times in this House that Army pensions are, of necessity, different. The reason is that their conditions of service are different. If men must work different numbers of years in different ranks then the pension schemes must be different. An examination of them in detail will prove that the Army pension schemes are better than those for other services.
Question No. 20.
Arising out of the Minister's reply——
I have given sufficient time to this question. I am anxious to make progress. Question No. 20.
In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I wish to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy.