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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 19 Feb 1976

Vol. 288 No. 3

Financial Resolutions, 1976. - Financial Resolution No. 11—General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance. —(The Taoiseach)

I said a budget will only be as effective as the measures taken in it. Unless there is restraint and constraint in the current year the budget will not be as effective as it should be. The budget was framed with the intention of getting the economy moving in order to provide employment and get people back to work. The moneys made available to industry and various State agencies, such as AnCO and the IDA, should show effects over the next 12 months but, unless we are competitive, we will not succeed. One cannot stress this sufficiently.

We hear a great deal about third level education and people looking for additional grants. Any moneys available should be spent on technological and adult education. Opportunities in the technological sector are increasing all the time while opportunities in what I might call the academic education sector are decreasing and it is on this sector we spend vast sums. The Murphy report should be implemented as soon as possible because there is great need for adult education. I believe that the better educated the work force is the more efficient it will be. Resources are limited and, therefore, whatever resources we have should be spent in that area which will prove most productive.

I would like to see all Departments looked at again to see if efficiency can be improved and to ensure that we are maximising our efforts. People want high wage economies, and so they have to earn high wage and salary economies. No matter what sector of industry or otherwise we are talking about, this must be always an overriding factor—that we are maximising efforts to increase production, and seeking to raise standards. If we do that we can pay ourselves more money and the economy can be run more efficiently. If we wish to increase employment greater emphasis must be placed on equipping new plant, making grants easier to get, and giving tax concessions to ensure that plant is always up-to-date.

One of the main reasons why England has slumped in the industrial market is that they did not retool and re-equip themselves in time and so became less efficient and lost markets. When markets are lost it is not easy to regain them. Now is the time for retooling and gearing up. It is not easy in a time of economic cutback, but if we want to be ready for action we must be making the necessary plant and work force available for the new jobs which will be created and developed over the next couple of years.

There is the problem of finding employment for young people today. This is one of the things that concerns everybody. We want to see that the youth who are leaving school now will be placed in gainful employment. Every effort must be made to ensure that they do not get into the habit of not working. If people are unemployed for long enough they become unemployable, and this is socially undersirable. We must give our youth opportunity, because a nation that can give confidence in employment to its young people will prosper.

We have not now the emigration that we had in the forties, fifties or sixties and consequently without the safety valve of the emigrant ship a large number of people are on the unemployment register. I am glad to see that the people are staying at home. Given the right economic climate they will, over the next 12 months, see the necessary employment opportunities coming up.

It is regrettable that we have the problem of the North. The amount of money spent on security that could easily be channelled into more productive capacity is regrettable. No doubt people who are engaged in acts of terrorism and gangsterism are also helping to deter industry from coming into the country. We must endeavour to take whatever steps are necessary to ensure that we have the proper peaceful climate, that industrialists will see this country as a place to come to because of its employment potential, capacity to expand, and encouragements by way of tax and grant incentives. They are first class, but we have not a peaceful atmosphere, and so unfortunately people are inclined to keep away.

I am glad the Opposition accepted the concept of developing our resources. I learned last weekend that they were advocating the building of a smelter. This is something that this Government committed themselves to and we have formulated a comprehensive policy on mining, not one of giving it away for nothing, but ensuring that the nation gets its share by still encouraging capital to come in. The same can be said of the oil and gas off our coast. In regard to technological training, it is important that we have people prepared for these industries so that they may be ready to take jobs. There is no use creating new jobs if we have to bring in outsiders to do them for us.

Hear, hear.

I believe that the Irishman has the capacity and intelligence to take up any job whatsoever. The mineral resources in Tara and other areas as well as the oil and gas need to be used in this country. Obviously, a certain degree of expertise is required but that brought in from outside should be minimised. We should ensure that we have our own people properly trained to take over the management, design, building and running of these various industries which when they come—we hope soon—will transform our economy. On the one side they will cut our large import bills and on the other they will give us a large export trade. From these industries we can develop large spin-off industries. Particularly in iron ore with the smelter, we will be maximising the effect from the ground.

We should consider the metallurgical industry as well. I think there are three areas here, digging up, processing and fabrication. These are creating the type of employment we require. The same can be said for the oil and gas. We can develop spin-off industries there which will give us employment also. As a nation our population growth is higher than that of most European countries and a large proportion of our population is under the age of 20, which is a very healthy sign. However, we have got to be in a position to give employment and to ensure that we have the job potential every year. This can only be brought about by comprehensive and long developed planning. We must plan. We cannot drift along. I have no doubt that when Europe gets back into full swing European industrialists will look to this country for their labour force and this will mean increased jobs for out people. As far as I am concerned I believe that when we have natural resources we should control them ourselves and develop them as much as possible. We are talking about very large sums of money which are available internationally. If we are unable to finance industry ourselves it is necessary for us to go abroad and seek the necessary finance which is available in other countries.

The Minister for Industry and Commerce has produced good deals as far as Ireland is concerned in any negotiations which have taken place. I am glad to know that there is oil off the south coast. We also have gas off the same coast. When those two are taken with the ore which we have, it can be seen that we have some valuable resources available to us. In the long-term our employment prospects should be great and our standard of living should rise. We can borrow in the lean times or the economically depressed times to ensure that we can maintain standards but this can only go on for a certain time. We have to face reality. If we cannot continue to borrow it spells economic doom for everybody. We must ensure if we are borrowing that it is for productive reasons.

I would like to see development taking place in our food processing industry. As Europe becomes more sophisticated the various countries will look for a better standard of living and better food. We are very fortunate here with our climate and the facilities for a good food processing industry. We are doing reasonably well in it at the moment but we should try to improve it. When we combine that with our natural resources we will make ourselves more self-sufficient. The test during the next few years will be to provide jobs for out people, to ensure that they have a better standard of living and that we have a more comprehensive social welfare system. I know some people feel we are drifting towards a social welfare State but I do not accept that principle. We must have a comprehensive social welfare system. I would like to see our social welfare system more sophisticated. This can only come about by developing our own resources, developing our capacity to work harder and then by increasing our natural wealth we can pay better social welfare benefits. Capital is required for this.

While the Government produce the budget they can only give the lead. The people in all parts of society must work together to ensure that we reach our goal. Anybody looking at the country can see that we have the potential but we have to harness it now. We must knuckle down to it over the next few years. If we do that we will have the type of economy we all seek. It is a question of the Government giving the lead and the people responding. I have no doubt that over the next few years this country will be in front of some of our larger partners in the Common Market today.

The debate on the budget has been so scattered over the weeks that it is difficult to follow any coherent pattern. That is not our fault. It is not the Opposition who have seen fit to relegate it to the background. We have it at the end of the day on Thursdays, at times when it is not likely to get much publicity. Towards the end of the Minister's budget statement he said:

Any critic, in this House or outside it, of the Government's budgetary strategy ought in all fairness to "hold his whist" unless willing to state publicly his alternative to our proposals.

In other words, do not speak unless you can produce alternative proposals. In spite of that statement, which is probably calculated to stifle discussion, I will comment on the budget proposals and why we must have such proposals at this time. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach spoke on the budget. He referred to the ding-dong attitude of Opposition speaking and implied that it was only a waste of time having those speeches which were holding up important legislation such as the Broadcasting Bill, from which the main substance has been withdrawn anyhow. His speech refers mostly to our criticisms of the budget debate not being given prominence in the House. He made a rather personal attack on the Leader of this party. I will not waste the time available to me in discussing that approach except to say that at budget time every Deputy has the right—I would go further and say the duty—to come in here and examine the Government's stewardship during the year. The budget debate gives us an opportunity to examine the way in which they have been handling the economy over the previous year and their projections for the year ahead.

That opportunity was available to us annually in the past. It has become a rather frequent occurrence now. In spite of many budgets under different guises which were introduced during the year, the annual budget is still an important event in the life of a Government. To say it should be let go without debate, or to imply, as the Chief Whip of the Government party implied, that it is only a waste of time after the first day or two, is to deny to the House one of its most important functions.

I will have suggestions to make about what the Government can do now in the short term. I have the right to criticise the Government's mishandling of affairs in the past. I remember when the Minister came into this House with his first budget. In his opening statement he referred to the slack in the economy which was not taken up and said he proposed to remedy that. The volume of unused capacity was to be changed by the new Government who would go for expansion in a big way and we were to have a completely changed situation. We should remember how things stood at that time. We had a rapidly growing export trade. We had a manageable unemployment problem. We were still recording a decent increase in the national economy. We had a growing population as recorded in two previous censuses. Emigration was virtually at a standstill. We had inflation which was manageable. We had prices rising, but not to any serious extent relative to what we have witnessed since. That was the scenario when the Minister for Finance brought his first budget into this House.

Before that he warned of the dangers of inflation which he pointed out he had inherited. I remember seeing him being interviewed on television before he went to America. He referred to the serious inflationary situation he had taken over and the serious rising prices with which he was confronted. These were the immediate tasks which he had to face. In spite of that, he undertook to operate a policy which could have no effect other than the effect every member of this party pointed out at the time.

If Members on the other side of the House are not anxious that we should discuss the budget, that is understandable. They do not wish to be reminded of the gross negligence of which they are guilty, and their lack of performance over the past three years. I submit that, if any ordinary commercial company had managed their affairs for the past three years in the same way, the manager would be sacked without notice. Democracy does not operate in that way and we are stuck with what we have and must tolerate it. The Government continue on, hardly apologising for the situation into which they have led us. They must submit to the most serious criticisms both in the House and outside it in relation to their mismanagement of the nation's affairs over the past three years.

In his budget speech the Minister suggested that nobody should criticise unless he was prepared to offer alternatives. This reminds me of the black-guardly son who drove his father's Rolls Royce over the precipice and then said: "How dare you admonish me for doing so unless you can tell me a better way of getting it out". We have more to say about the situation we are in, apart from helping the Minister to get out of it. He went into it with his eyes open. Most of us know why. They elected to go for political expediency rather than the sane thing to do in relation to their budgetary performance.

I remember speaking from this seat on the Minister's first budget. I pointed out that, as sure as night follows day, the time would come when the Minister would have to come to the House to take drastic measures to correct the situation which could then have been averted. That is on record. We all knew from the action or lack of action in that budget that we would be in the serious critical situation in which the country finds itself today. I do not think there is any parallel in our history for the way the Government behaved, in the knowledge that what they were doing would sink us further and further into trouble.

Where do we go from here? The last speaker made a very innocent Alice in Wonderland speech. I do not blame him for that. He pointed out all the things he would like to see done. He did not for one moment suggest they were being done, or were likely to be done. He just hoped things would happen. We will not get anywhere by hoping something will happen in the future.

Belatedly the Minister admitted that we will have to take action. "Belatedly" is a rather mild way of saying that because the Minister should have been involved in action from the word "go". The action he should have taken was a mild form of the action he must take now in a more drastic way.

Economists do not agree on the action that should be taken when we have these alternating changes in the economy. They are known now as trade or business cycles and they have become well known features of world economy in recent years. Those people who have been quoting from Keynesian theory always find something suitable to quote. Most people are aware that even he changed his stance many times. People like Ricardo, even as far back as the Greek philosophers, advocated theories not always supported in practice. We have plenty of examples to draw from the many economists to suit our purpose at the time. It always reminds me of Papal Encyclicals, such as Rerum Novarum, because the workers and the employers could always find something nice to quote from it.

From all the economic theory that has been turned out in the past certain fundamental principles have emerged and been agreed on by all the economists. They are elementary and one does not need to be a student of economics to appreciate what they are. The Minister seems to be alone in refusing to acknowledge that this type of action is necessary. The first problem when inflation manifests itself is to ensure that no serious precipitate action is taken to deflate or reflate the economy but to ensure that the economy is "steady as she goes". It is necessary to ensure that employment is watched carefully and that nothing is done to upset the employment situation. That means production, a careful eye on costings, not putting any impediment in the way of productive development and the making available of incentives to ensure that the economy is kept moving in the direction of development and output. In that way a serious recession is avoided but the Minister failed to take action in that regard and must accept the responsibility for the serious situation in which we find ourselves.

A mild form of what he is trying to do now, without any crisis or panic stations, would have averted this serious situation. We will find it difficult to get out of it because in sending good money after bad money we have borrowed to the extent that repayments will weigh heavily on us at a time when we should be forging ahead out of the recession. All the forecasts we have been getting have been leaps in the dark. The Taoiseach made reference to a 2 per cent increase but that was a statement from the top of his head and nothing more. We had several such statements in the past but they were just prompted by wishful thinking. Those who made them were hoping that such statements would coincide with a turn-up in the world situation. We are now left in the position that even an improvement in the world economy would not give us any immediate benefit.

That is a situation of our own making. We cried about external factors beyond our control until we were sick listening to them but, in the end, we had to admit that the major factor giving rise to inflation was domestic inflation. Some months ago I spoke about the lack of planning by the Government and a few weeks later the Minister countered by saying that the was producing a plan before Christmas, without saying which Christmas. We all know that a Government cannot properly represent its people without a clear-cut policy and, based on that policy, a plan to guide the economy. It may be a flexible programme; it may be attainable but not attained as often happened in the past but it must give guidance to those willing to invest in the economy, to those who want to know where the Government are going and what the future holds in relation to fiscal policy, taxation and expansion.

All doubts will be removed if a suitable plan is presented outlining the direction in which the Government wish to go. Governments take so much of the people's money nowadays, and put themselves in the position of controlling to a serious extent the affairs of a nation, that they cannot hold themselves apart from the responsibility which is theirs to take in relation to every sector of the economy. We must ask if the people are being given any guidance by the Government as to where they are going in the future. I am not being in any way political when I say that the first essential of a proper policy and programme is a stable single-party Government, a Government with a unified outlook in relation to economies and which will not be blown off course at times of difficulty.

The problem is that the Government have no plan but they promise that one day they may produce a programme. This is not of much help because we are in a crisis situation. The Minister should direct all his energies towards getting us out of this emergency and should take whatever steps are necessary in this regard before we reach the point of no return. He should be endeavouring to instil into people a sense of emergency regarding any programme for the future. However, he is doing nothing in this regard in the budget. He should be concentrating on the one sector of the economy which can help to bring immediate relief to the situation, that is, the manufacturing or industrial sector.

When we were in Government I recall a situation in which there was an increase in the unemployment figures beyond what might be regarded as normal. We called special meetings of the Government to deal with the problem, to find out where employment might be created and also to ensure the cutting of any red tape that might have been holding up the provision of jobs. The Minister should do likewise in the present situation. Every possible incentive should be given in an effort to get us out of the rut in which we find ourselves. Much can be done by way of fiscal programmes but there is scarely any improvement in that situation so far as the budget is concerned. Indeed, the budget only presents further obstacles to solving the problem. One has only to consider the various reactions to the budget to realise that it is not geared in any way towards solving our problems.

Is it not time that the whole credit situation was examined so as to ascertain to what extent credit can be put to productive development? Is it not time to ensure that the banks operate in a way that would give private enterprise an opportunity to overcome their difficulties of liquidity? Has the Minister thought of discussing with the commercial banks the question of whether term loans should be abandoned and the old system of overdrafts reintroduced, at least for a period that would enable business people and those with small industries to extricate themselves from their difficulties and to re-employ some of those they have laid off? It is time, too, to examine all our financial institutions to find out whether they are giving loans for the right purposes. Has any effort been made to bring together all those involved in the credit business so that they might be made aware of the serious situation of the economy? If this were done these people might work together to assist in putting the economy back on its feet.

I wonder whether all the State-sponsored bodies have been called together and asked to participate in a drive towards recovery. What, for instance, are Bord Fáilte doing to implement the plan they issued recently? Are there any short-term plans to boost tourism or will the country be left to suffer from the serious adverse effects which the budget will have on that industry? Are means being made available to Board Fáilte to ensure that they can implement their policy in the short term and, thereby, bring about immediate results? All State-sponsored bodies should be warned that every penny they spend must be aimed at righting our economic situation and getting it back to the point it was at when this party left office.

We have been criticised for laying too much stress on the importance of the "Buy Irish" campaign but is it not ludicrous to have this pretence of such a campaign when we note what has been going on in the past few years, and particularly in recent times, when orders in regard to shipping, steel and many other important commodities have not been given the attention they should have received? We shall leave aside the question of furniture for the moment. The present situation justifies and demands that all those people who have vast amounts of money to spend be brought together and told that we are not living in times that can be regarded as normal and that, irrespective of what any EEC directive might contain or of what past precedents have been regarding the acceptance of tenders, we must do everything in our power to ensure that Irish industry is given every opportunity possible to survive and expand. It should get the benefit of any Irish money that is being spent for the manufacture or purchase of various commodities. Apparently there are some people who are prepared to place their orders with concerns outside the country and not to have any regard for Irish enterprise. Rather, they regard themselves as living in an open and free economy where they are free to purchase goods which to their way of thinking are more in keeping with the high standards they apply to themselves than are the Irish-manufactured articles.

All of this might be acceptable in times of a buoyant economy in which there was a movement towards full employment but they are unforgiveable during this time of crisis. We should not rely on the little note which appears on the box of matches urging us to buy Irish. That is all very well but much more is needed at this time when we are rapidly approaching bankruptcy. Nothing should prevent the Government from taking what might be regarded as drastic action in regard to all these matters.

The Minister went to great extremes to seek derogation from the EEC regulation and directives in relation to the postponement of the equal pay legislation which has been passed through the House, even to the extent of losing his head and letting down the country as well as himself and the Government by attacking one of the commissioners of the EEC, something which is an all-time low for any Government in the nine EEC countries. When the textile and footwear industries were feeling the draught which was attributed to the progressive reduction of import duties, why did we not seek derogation from the EEC directives on that occasion? We were very prim and proper and afraid to offend anybody then or put a foot wrong in relation to the EEC regulations. When it suited us in relation to a most serious social matter, we looked for a derogation and we castigated our own commissioner, of whom the country has a right to be proud, in regard to one of the most ugly affairs this Government have come through, and they have come through a good many.

This sort of conduct is not likely to lead to a situation in which we would have the complete sympathy of all other countries, particularly the member states of the EEC, in getting out of the serious crisis into which we have been plunged due to not taking the proper action at the proper time. We must look for help in every direction and we must particularly, if it is not too late now, ensure that no further orders will be placed outside this country for goods we can produce here ourselves.

I do not want to flog a dead horse but placing that furniture order outside this country was inexcusable and the Minister cannot extricate himself from responsibility for that happening in the first instance. If the Government had been approaching the "Buy Irish" campaign against the background of the serious and rapidly deteriorating economic situation, the clarion call would have gone out long before that no attempt should be made by any State-sponsored body to send orders outside the country in the volume that has been involved without having reasons which would be approved by the Government. Not merely did we lose an opportunity at a time when it was sorely needed but we also cast a great reflection on the Irish people whose resilience, whose capabilities and adaptability are second to none when called upon to do a job, even though it might not be the kind of work to which they are ordinarily accustomed. I refer to such jobs as steel fabrication, the expertise for which if it were not available, could be immediately acquired, and I am perfectly sure that not merely as good a job but a better job would be done than by any outside firm.

I cannot see what would be wrong with a furniture designer designing whatever type of special furniture or furnishings would be required, and then going around and asking firms if they could undertake to manufacture them or if they could do half of them, and getting another firm to do the other half. The reputation of our people as craftsmen would enable them to rise to the occasion and produce anything to meet the highest standards attainable in the manufacture of such goods.

The atmosphere created by the Government was such that people felt themselves free to go where they liked and get what they liked and ignore the economic situation, the seriousness of which was not brought home to them. It is no excuse to say it was too late when they heard what was being done. Months and years before it happened is when the message should have been delivered to these people. It must be delivered by the general behaviour of the Government who would not then have to sit down and write a letter to any body or corporation telling them what they should do.

The Deputy will appreciate that we had a discussion on this matter and that it is scarcely relevant to the budget debate.

I do not want to enter into any acrimonious discussion with the Chair about it. Perhaps I have over-played it, but it is very relevant at a time when we are discussing the whole question of the economy and in the light of the amount of ridicule to which we have been exposed before the world by our own actions. I am discussing some of the things the Minister should initiate as a matter of urgency, if we are to bring the economy back on the road to progress.

I want to criticise the lack of effort for tourism. If the budget was designed to discourage tourists coming here, it could not do more damage than it is likely to do. The only answer somebody on the other side of the House had in relation to that the other day was: "Other countries are more expensive". That is the type of talk that leads us to what we are today. From the beginning we should have aimed at a more reasonable cost of living. The right action was not taken in relation to rising prices. The Government spearheaded the move which has brought us to a situation in which they cannot take the same drastic action as they would otherwise be entitled to take.

We took a serious view of the Arab oil increase and said it would ruin our economy. It raised the cost of living for everybody and had a serious effect on the economy generally. If we were appalled, as we said we were, why did we put more on it ourselves than the Arabs put on? The Minister introduced in the House one day a mere statutory order the effect of which was to take millions of pounds from the pockets of the ordinary people, the middle-class working people. The Minister for Industry and Commerce was trying to convince me across the floor one day that we did not walk enough, that it was to prevent people from using more fuel that the price was being increased. Then to get more revenue from it the Minister for Finance has another whack at it in his budget.

We are not giving any encouragement to the private sector to cooperate at a time when their co-operation is much needed. All the measures we might take to generate employment have been neglected. There is no effort to give serious attention to the problem we are facing. If one went into the planning office in the last two years one would see plans for thousands of buildings being held up for two or three years. If somebody did a few weeks work there, turned down the plans which should be turned down and gave approval to those worthy of approval, employment would be generated for thousands of people. That demonstrates the complete lack of urgency which this Micawber-like Government attach to the serious situation in which we find ourselves.

We expect a great deal of effort from the private sector. The man who employs 30 or 40 people is in a serious situation because he must pay increased social insurance, higher postage bills, and greatly increased telephone accounts—usually for a telephone which does not work. His rates are also increased. He is paying all these increases but is entitled to none of the benefits. Unless he is an exporter, he pays tax three different ways. Where is the incentive for this man to create more jobs which will shorten the ever-growing line of our unemployed?

What are Governments for? Would we not have been better off without a Government for the last three years? At a funeral the other day I heard a once staunch Fine Gael supporter say: "Fianna Fáil could not be worse". His friend said "If we had no Government at all for the past few years we would be better off today". The civil service would make a better job of running the country if they did not have the obstacle of a Government which did not follow the dictates of common principles. We are borrowing one day after another. This money must be repaid. The interest, too, must be paid with money which is badly needed for the creation of jobs. Maybe the situation is not as serious as I see it. Perhaps the Minister will tell us what he did in the past is right. If there is the slightest improvement in the situation, some Minister is on his feet taking credit for it, but if things go wrong, we are told they are due to factors beyond their control.

It has been said in the House on many occasions that the real test of any Government is the number unemployed. If that test is applied to this Government, they have failed utterly. Making allowance for all the external factors which would inevitably have some effect on trade, the performance of the Government to offset to the maximum the effects of world recession has not reflected any credit on a Government that has been credited with some ability and foresight.

The only Government which can pursue a policy and plan to put before the people is a Government comprising a single party that has the necessary stability to be able to show their projections for the future, and which will not be trespassing on the other man's idealism.

Fianna Fáil might be making overtures to the Labour Party at the next election.

I hope we will not be making overtures to anybody. Deputy O'Connell is a man with a mind of his own. I can safely say that if the Labour Party, as they have done in the past, feel like coming in to support us, we will not coalesee because we do not believe coalition governments were or ever will be capable of making real progress in this or any other country. You only get the best type of democracy out of a single-minded party with a policy and the stability to see it through.

Most democracies in Europe are coalitions.

That could be; their lack of stability causes them to break up. For a number of years we had the example of France until they got a strong man to show them the way and expose the weaknesses of coalition governments generally.

Our third programme for economic and social development for 1969-72 might not be regarded as a spectacular success. We might not have hit the target as well as we did in our first and second programmes but it was a blue-print expressing the desires, aims and the channels into which our resources were being directed so that any man, whether an outsider wishing to invest or a local entrepreneur with money to invest, knew the direction we wanted to go. It permitted the necessary flexibility. If it went off course, we had corrective measures.

The Department of Finance, copying the United States and elsewhere, brought in programme budgeting. We were really becoming organised. I remember taking the pamphlet issued by the Department of Finance in November, 1970, to bed so that I could understand programme budgeting. Paragraph 4 set out the fundamentals of programme budgeting. It said that the programme budgeting focussed attention on forward planning and on establishing budgets relating to plans and programmes. It also said that programme budgeting stresses results, the measurement of progress towards objectives and the expenditure needed to produce those results. In other words, we were adopting programme budgeting which would ensure that from month to month, week to week, and day to day, you knew where you were going, when you could ease off a little, or where you could apply more resources. We were really making progress then but now nobody knows where we are going.

The Keynes theory propounded that unemployment brought down wages and because many people were clamouring for a few jobs they were willing to take them at any price. That theory is outmoded now and does not apply because we have reached the stage where we are capable of paying our people a good wage, irrespective of the numbers employed. We should not use the recession as an excuse to postpone equal pay, which the Government have attempted to do. The Keynesian theory of using monetary policy to prevent our sliding too rapidly downhill at a time when we were in a trade cycle spin or of easing off when we were moving upwards too rapidly is still sound enough policy.

How can we hope to get out of the present recession if we borrow money for our current spending, if we do not give incentives to industry and if we impose taxes on private enterprise? People must plan in advance; this applies to those who have money to invest as well as to those with growing families who wish to place them in a worthwhile area of employment. There is no guidance for any of those people. It is a question of hit and miss.

The Minister should examine the credit situation in the country. Would it not be worthwhile to restore the confidentiality that the banks once enjoyed? So far as commercial banks are concerned, a person might as well leave his money at the crossroads and put a stone on it. Now the Revenue authorities can pry into all kinds of situations. Millions of pounds have gone out of the country although there is now an effort being made to get the money back. If we want to ensure that the commercial banks have the necessary reserves, confidentiality should be restored. If people who have money to lend have the necessary confidence in the system and in the country they will lend it. We should ensure that such money is used for productive purposes in order to give the necessary impetus to business and commerce to complete on the world markets. We have frequently pointed out that the devaluation of the £ should have been a tremendous incentive and help to our exporters. It had not that effect because our costings had risen too much.

It is difficult to make an assessment of the situation. I was surprised to hear the Taoiseach forecasting an increase of 2 per cent in the growth rate because he did not give any facts or figures to support that forecast. The trade figures for January have shown an increase in imports and the balance of trade deficit has gone askew. That may not be a bad sign; it may mean that people are starting to replenish their stocks. We have not been given any guidance about what the future may hold.

The Government have not produced any plan; we do not think it is due to inability to produce it but it is due to the situation in which the Government find themselves. The two conflicting ideals in the Government cannot coalesce in formulating a plan acceptable to both parties. In the old days when Fine Gael and the Labour Party had no hope of forming a single party Government they could churn out a policy every six months. It was no trouble because they knew they would not be called on to implement it. I am involved in the formulation of policy-making for my party. I hope to have an opportunity to present that policy; it will not be the programme of 14 points drawn up overnight which has eroded the credibility of the present set-up. Anyone can sit down and write out a litany of pious aspirations and present that as a policy document. This is what Fine Gael did in the past. The knowledge that one will never be called on to implement it leaves one free to undertake such a project without attempting to set out any costing or to make any estimations——

If the Deputy proceeds on the same basis he will not get an opportunity of inflicting on the country the economic policies of Martin O'Donoghue.

I would not be tempted. The one priority is to restore credibility. The Government parties in the past presented a programme of 14-points and about 16 policies, none of which they operated, and now the people think that politics is just a dirty game. Credibility must be restored, uncertainty must be removed and confidence restored before any policy or programme can be accepted and put into operation.

It was interesting to listen to Deputy Brennan's speech. His final remarks were pertinent. Parliament is composed of an Opposition and a Government. The Opposition also have a duty to be strong and constructive and they must keep a Government on their toes. Unless they are seen to do this democracy and the parliamentary system may be injured. The confidence of our people will also be affected.

Any Government worth their salt should engage in the exercise of self-criticism and self-analysis and it would be worthwhile for the Government to do this more often. As a backbencher I have been criticised on many occasions because I express my own views and I criticise the Government. I reserve the right to do this, not because I am destructive about it but because I think it is good for a Government that one of their members should criticise them.

For 16 years Fianna Fáil were in power and their members dutifully passed through the division lobbies without questioning one act of the Government. It is not a sign of a healthy democracy or good Government that its members should not offer constructive criticism. For too long we have had this lobby fodder, where the backbenchers did not offer any suggestions. We might change that system. Members of the Government parties might set the precedent in this Parliament, perhaps at times speaking against our own parties. We might be able to tell them that they are not always right, that the backbenchers are closer to the ordinary people. This is a sign of a healthy Parliament, Government and democracy. I shall be making some pertinent statements about and criticisms of the Government and I trust the Minister for Finance will bear with me.

Debate adjourned.
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