I want to oppose the disallowance of statute CV made by the Governing Body of University College, Galway. I will deal now with what the Minister has just said. First, the Minister has given as the reason for doing this the Government's embargo on the allocation of new posts at present. That is, I would say, a deliberately vague statement, because the Minister would have to prove that the Government have the power of embargo on the creation of new posts in university colleges, and the Minister has not undertaken any such proof.
The second point I want to take up that the Minister has just made is about the priority allotted to law in some negotiations. Would the fact that the students and the temporary part-time staff revolted against the conditions in the faculty of law in University College, Galway, have anything to do with the added urgency of dealing with the disastrous law situation in that college? "An tÚdarás", the Minister says, "replied at that stage that the creation of new staff posts could not be considered". What does that sentence mean? Does it mean that An tÚdarás cannot consider this if the Government say so? If the Government say there will not be any new posts, are An tÚdarás so tied that they cannot even consider the situation? Thirdly, the Minister stated further on in his speech:
The question of the future development of the faculty of law will also be raised at that meeting.
I would like to know from the Minister by whom will it be raised at that meeting. Will it be raised by representatives of the Minister? Will it be raised by An tÚdarás at the request of the Minister? Where does the autonomy of An tÚdarás come in?
I want to make a number of points on the actual statute. First of all, the establishment by statute of a professorship and posts in law and, in this case, also one in education and one in business studies, does not carry with it a commitment to the actual creation of the posts as of now. I am reliably informed—so reliably informed that there can be no doubt at all about it—that although 50 other statutory posts have been created in University College, Galway, they have not been filled, and such posts must await filling until the necessary money is available for financing them.
There is an important principle which I mentioned already, the principle of the freedom of the university colleges. There is also an important point to be made in regard to what I have just said: when we were discussing the question of third-level education, one of the strongest points to be made on this side of the House against the Minister's proposal for the reestablishment of a truncated National University of Ireland was that the procedures in such a federal university slow up decisions, slow up the making of appointments and so on. It takes about two years for a governing body to get together a statute, to get sanction for a post and have the post established. If there are already unfilled 50 posts that have been established statutorily and that will be filled when the money becomes available, why could the Minister not have allowed the statutory establishment of the professorship and the four lectureships concerned?
The difficulty about the funding of the college, that is to say, the part of the funding for which the Government are responsible, is that this funding is done annually, but planning in such an important domain cannot be done annually, and consequently the Minister is making a serious mistake in what he is now doing. The governing body of University College, as I read it, were going through an exercise in having the statutory sanction for these posts ready for An tÚdarás for the allocation of money. I cannot see how that would not be possible in the light of what I have already stated.
The history of the law department in University College, Galway, is interesting. There was always a part-time statutory professor of law and jurisprudence in that college. The late Professor Gallagher held that position until his death. Since he died there has been no appointment. There has been somebody acting part-time and there have been lecturers acting part-time. They are totally dissatisfied with this. No matter what the Minister says, the most important considerations in this matter is an educational one. There is an LLB course in University College, Galway, and it is self-evident that full-time staff is required.
In outlining my argument at the beginning about the position of statutory posts having been made but not filled, I am not conceding that there is any justification for the Minister's action in this case, because there is not all that much money involved in it anyway. As well as the LLB course these people were providing service teaching for the commerce and arts faculties. I do not think it is necessary to elaborate on that point to show the House how the Minister in moving this motion to disallow is doing a serious disservice to third-level education. The people in Galway had a working party with outside representation on it which did a careful study to consider the position. The governing body prepared this statute with the views of that working party in mind and I think the statute is a perfectly justifiable and reasonable one.
Another point is that the Incorporated Law Society of Ireland have laid down new rules about the necessary academic training of solicitors. One of their recommendations is that solicitors must have a degree. It does not necessarily have to be a degree in law, but a degree in law would be desirable and would make it a more logical kind of preparation for the career of solicitor. What is going to happen in the west of Ireland, in Galway and area, if the Minister is going to allow this state of affairs to continue? God knows, I am sick, sore and tired of listening to weeping and wailing from the far side of the House about the fate of the west of Ireland when it is politically suitable, but when it comes to putting money where mouths are I find a total reluctance by this Department and other Departments.
If somebody wants to do a law degree it means that he or she will have to leave Galway and come to Dublin, and that is no inexpensive proposition at the moment. So what is the Minister doing? The Minister is doing what has been decried by many from his own side of the House in the past. He is making the law situation for people in the west of Ireland a situation of privilege so that only those who have a great deal of money at their disposal can do a basic degree in law.
I understand that the Senate of the National University of Ireland have approved a BL course for University College, Galway. If proper staffing were arranged through this statute, together with backing from An tÚdarás, then that BL course could be got under way and a service would be provided for the west of Ireland. In effect, what the Minister is doing, despite all the talk about meetings and consultations, is killing law in University College, Galway.
I have already mentioned the concern that was expressed from the Government benches about equality of opportunity. Indeed, I am prepared to believe, and I know it to be true, that certain Members on the opposite side were not merely paying lip-service to this philosophy, but I am submitting to the Chair that there is a great deal of lip—service and cant in this talk of equality of opportunity. Regional discrimination against a potential student will result from this action of the Minister. For example, I know that for many years the Attorney General—and I believe he is sincere—has talked about equalising opportunity for students from every part of the country. I believe he should come in here and back me up in trying to have this motion defeated in the House. If he did that, he would be acting in accordance with his own oft-expressed philosophy. Indeed, I remember being at a dinner of the National University of Ireland at which the Attorney General gave a very impressive speech along these lines, pointing out that everybody there who was a graduate of the National University at that time was a privileged person who had been subsidised to a great extent by the taxpayer and that consequently there was a duty on each and every one at that dinner to see that opportunity would be equalised for others.
Here is an opportunity for the Minister to equalise at very little expense by allowing this statute and providing equal opportunity for the son of a poor man in the west of Ireland, or even a middling well-off man, because you would want to be pretty well off to send someone up from the west of Ireland to the city of Dublin and put them through a law degree at this time.
There are a number of other Ministers, including the Minister for Foreign Affairs, who believe in equal opportunity. The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, the Peeping Tom of the departmental files, would be far better off in here at the moment defending the right of the poorer students in the west of Ireland to a course in law at their own university than at the activity he is indulging in in this House by reading out from departmental files.
I asked at the beginning about the Government's embargo on the creation of new posts at present. There is a reaching out for power implicit in that sentence, power which I do not think the Minister and the Government have. I am not talking about accountability or the percentage of money that has to be spent from public funds to maintain the universities. I am talking about the reaching out for power by the Minister to deny educational development in a university department.
We had a discussion in the House on technological education quite recently. The Minister for Industry and Commerce has stated his and the Government's objective. He said by way of tailpiece that this was the only way he could work in our system. He said that the big stick could not be used with regard to third-level education.
I submit, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, that this is using the big stick, the big money stick of the Department, that the Minister is waving the big stick over University College, Galway. I thought I detected a note of regret in the voice of the Minister for Industry and Commerce when he was saying he could not use the big stick. But there is this reaching out for power. I am not submitting that there should be any derogation of ministerial responsibility with regard to funding of education at any level. What I am saying is where there is an educational lacuna, as there is here, that the Minister should not use his power in this House to block that gap.
This is the big stick, I say, and I would like the Minister to disprove it. That kind of big stick was used by the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries a few weeks ago when he pulled the mat from under the veterinary faculty in TCD. It is a tendency which I deplore. For that reason I am trying to highlight it.
I concentrated to a great extent on the law, professorship and lectureships. The educational argument is strong in favour of the other two. I know that the education department in University College, Galway, is particularly strong at the moment. It is a department that has done very well. It has deserved well of its college and of its students. I am thinking in particular about the number of students there who went to teach in the Six Counties. When I was working in the north-west, in Donegal, I used to meet very many of them in the various schools and the colleges throughout the Six Counties. I think it was extraordinarily beneficial for the Six Counties, for the university in Galway and for the mixing of students, qualified people as they were then, from the west of Ireland mainly, with their Northern brothers and sisters. There is a distinguished lecturer in that department of University College, Galway, at the moment from the North, and I hope that the link between University College, Galway, and the schools in the North will be strengthened over the years and that the quality of the education received in the education department in University College, Galway, will be of a continuing high standard. Obviously, the governing body feel that one extra statutory lecturer is needed to maintain standards in that department. Again the Minister, by his action, is depriving the education department of a lecturer.
I want to say a brief word on the business studies lectureship. If we are serious about maintaining and improving the wealth of the people in situ in Connacht then this department should also have the right to staff adequately. I am convinced that a governing body of a college such as University College, Galway, is well equipped and sufficiently well informed to know when it needs an extra lecturer. You can be quite sure, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, that, as reasonable people not totally ignorant of the economic situation in the country, they would not make a demand for such an appointment unless it was necessary. There has been a great to-do about the Gaeltacht and about maintaining it. What better way than to keep strong the university college that is nearest to it and that has served it?
I had the privilege last year of speaking to University College, Galway, and I quoted to them an incident that happened at the time of the Spanish Civil War where the rector of a university was sitting at a public meeting when an attack was made on universities, on things of the intellect. The shout was "Abajo la inteligencia"—"Down with the intellect"; "Viva la muerte"—"Long live death". This old, frail man, in a very dangerous situation, dangerous to himself, got up and severely criticised the person who made this remark. He told the staff and students, who were by then almost intimidated, that in their university they had a temple of the intellect and that the people who were trying to beat it down would prevail by force because they had that type of force, but that in the end the university and its intelligence would prevail.
I am not going to cast the Minister in the role of a Falangist leader or a fascist. I know perfectly well that he is not such, but the people of Galway have in their university college distinctive status as a university, their temple of the intellect, and they should fight hard to maintain it as a temple of the intellect.
I refer again to the section on the law, professorship and lecturers. According to the Government's arguments neither university—referring to Dublin—should be without a law faculty. Then the argument is very strong that the law faculty in University College, Galway, should be maintained, adequately and professionally staffed, and that the niggardly, beggarly approach of the Minister for Finance in this regard should be decried. I ask the House to refuse the Minister's request.
