andMr. O'Kennedy asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the refusal by the Soviet Embassy of a visa for Deputy Briscoe who wished to present a petition at the Kremlin after the Soviet Embassy here had refused to accept the petition.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Soviet Visa.
4.
The decision whether or not to grant a visa for entry to the Soviet Union is entirely a matter for the Soviet authorities. I have no function at all in this and I am not in a position to make a statement on it.
Would the Minister not even deplore the situation that a Member of this House, wishing to go to Russia on perfectly legitimate business to petition for the release of a man who is in prison because his only crime is that he is a Baptist pastor, should be refused a visa? Does he not feel that this is scarcely a friendly act on the part of a nation which is allegedly endeavouring to be friendly with this and other western nations?
The question of the issue of visas is a question for the Government concerned and other Governments have no function in the matter. That is a point on which we and all Governments insist as part of the normal relationship between states.
Does the Minister not agree that it is a severe insult, not just to Deputy Briscoe but to every Member of this House, this institution, that one of its Members should be refused leave to travel to a country that is allegedly friendly?
It would be inappropriate for me to express an opinion on a matter within the total competence of another Government.
The Minister is agreeing with the views of the Russians in relation to Deputy Briscoe, that he is apparently an undesirable type of person?
Nothing of the kind.
Does the Minister not deplore the action of the Russian Government in refusing him a visa?
It is not normal practice to express opinions on the actions of other Governments in regard to visas.
Is the Minister aware of any other case that a country with which we had diplomatic representations refused a visa to a Member of our Parliament to visit that country?
I have no information on that at this time. If the Deputy wishes to put down a question I will try to get the information.
If I suggest to the Minister that there has not been such a case will he acknowledge then that, as Deputy O'Malley has said, this is a matter which affects our Parliament? The Minister, as our representative Minister, should at least convey his disapproval to the Government concerned for their refusal to give a visa to a Member of this House.
I would not wish to be drawn too far into this but I am in a difficulty. The question as put down carries with it an implication which I think is incomplete. I think, therefore, the basis on which Deputy O'Kennedy is putting his question may perhaps be something of a misapprehension. In fact, Deputy Briscoe was received by the ambassador and handed in a petition on 22nd December, 1975. It is my information that petitioners arriving during working hours at the embassy have not been refused admission but naturally outside working hours the position is somewhat different, as it would be indeed at any of our Government offices.
I better clarify that. The petition referred to here is not the one that Deputy Briscoe was presenting at the embassy. Even if it were the same the position is that a Member of this Parliament has been declined a visa to enter a country with which we have diplomatic relations. The Minister, as our representative, does not see fit to express his disapproval or protest on our behalf.
The grounds stated in the question for the visa being sought are grounds which do not correspond with the information at my disposal, in so far as Deputy Briscoe was received on 22nd December, 1975. I am informed, subject to correction by any Deputy in the House, that petitioners arriving during working hours at the embassy have, of course, been received. Given that the grounds stated in the question for seeking a visa would appear on the information available to me to be incorrect the Deputy will appreciate that, even if protest were proper in regard to non-issue of a visa, it is scarcely a case in which I could undertake to do what the Deputy wishes me to do.
Is the Minister saying——
A final supplementary.
——that if Deputy Briscoe goes back during business hours that he will be cordially received by this ambassador who refused to accept his petition before?
I am informed that petitioners arriving during working hours have been received on every occasion.
Question No. 5.
(Interruptions.)
Order. I am calling the next question.
Has the Minister any views on the imprisonment of Pastor Vins, whose sole crime is that he is a Baptist pastor?
The Deputy is raising a separate matter. Question No. 5.
May I ask the Minister——
I have given a lot of latitude on this question. I will permit the Deputy to intervene but he must be brief.
Is the Minister aware that he is completely misinformed when he is told that I met the Soviet ambassador? I never met the Soviet ambassador. I met a consul. Is the Minister aware that I was informed by that consul in the presence of Lady Wicklow, who is a witness to the events that they did not receive or accept petitions nor did they accept petitions on behalf of any individuals? Is the Minister aware that the humanitarian cause, for which I had asked for a visa to go to the Soviet Union, was signed by 107 Members of this House, 21 Senators, 29 city councillors, headed by the Lord Mayor? Is the Minister aware that Pastor Vins is adopted as a prisoner of conscience by the International Council of Churches——
The Deputy is extending the scope of the question.
——and the International Committee for the Defence of Human Rights? Has the Minister any comment to make on that or have we any concern about this?
The relevant part of that supplementary, if I might put it this way, is Deputy Briscoe's assertion of the refusal to accept the petition. My information is that he handed in the petition and that it was accepted. If Deputy Briscoe has a contrary view of what happened I accept what he said.
Does the Minister accept that we heard him say a few minutes ago that the ambassador received Deputy Briscoe?
The information available to me is that he was received by the ambassador and handed in a petition.
Does the Minister now realise that Deputy Briscoe's information is correct in relation to this and that the Minister's information is incorrect?
I know what Deputy Briscoe said.
(Interruptions.)
Is the Minister aware that we were told on that occasion in 1975 that if we left the petition there it would be put in the wastepaper basket and that I was told if I wanted to take the petition I could take it to Moscow myself? Would the Minister now agree that when I was given that information and applied for a visa on a completely different case to go to Moscow this was declined in a letter to me on May 15th which stated——
Order. I have given the Deputy a lot of latitude. This is going too far. Next question.
This is very important. I would like an answer to that from the Minister.
I note the Deputy's statement.
With your permission I want to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy.